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To be surprised you mumsnetters criticised my ex’s school !!

242 replies

Jumell · 08/12/2024 15:48

My ex went to an all boys’ comprehensive school in London. It’s been slagged off to the ground on here as being rough, not being the school of choice for MC parents, results are dire etc etc .

However he did leave the school in one piece and with 2 CSEs no less!! (OK showing his age a bit!) But the pearl clutchiness about his school on MN is immense !! 🤣 - I didn’t do CSEs btw so don’t truly know how good 2 CSEs is.
He left school in 1986 FYI - I was still a young school kid then, Dunno - was 2 CSEs good for 1986?!

FWIW the comp I went to wasn’t short for ‘comprehensive’ - more compost heap - but that’s possibly the subject of another thread. !

OP posts:
Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/12/2024 19:04

adriftinadenofvipers · 08/12/2024 18:34

I went to a very academic school in the 70s/80s and it wasn't as rare as you seem to think. One year a student achieved 5 A grades at A level. That was exceptional.

I myself got 6 As, 2 Bs (and a U lol!) in my O levels and 2 A 2 B at A level. There was a group of us who achieved similarly. Some went to Oxbridge.

Yes, that's exactly my point. 5 As at A level was exceptional. A girl in my year achieved that and went to Oxford to do a STEM degree.

I had a Saturday job in the last few years of school. That was a useful life lesson. The other girls who worked there mostly went to comps. I could see from the way they worked that they were bright and quick on the uptake (better at the work than I was, very obviously) but when they talked about school it was clear that very little was expected of them compared with my school. They talked about possibly being put in for one or two O levels alongside their CSEs, but they didn't expect to pass them and they certainly didn't expect to stay on in education after 16. I've met a lot of women like this in my life. What a terrible waste of talent it was.

Another2Cats · 08/12/2024 19:02

Silvertulips · 08/12/2024 18:52

A grade C at OLevel was difficult - there weren’t many B or C’s flying around and A was rare.

That said most kids left with 5 - maths English science’s then either art, typewriting, etc

No CSE in religion or sports for example.

2 is quite poor to be fair - but you were still guaranteed a job.

The jobs market has changed.

"That said most kids left with 5"

You are mistaken. Only around the top 20% of pupils passed an O Level.

Then around another 40% passed CSE and the bottom 40% didn't pass at all.

I did well at school and most of my friends also did well. But I'm equally aware that many others at our school didn't do so well. Indeed, around 80% left at the end of the fifth year (currently year 11) and a number left as soon as possible after they turned 16 which meant leaving before taking any exams.

Hotflushesandchilblains · 08/12/2024 19:00

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/12/2024 18:54

They may have taken them. How many of them did they pass and with what grades?

Well, at my school most people did 0 levels and the average was 7 or 8. Those people who did CSEs also got mostly 7 or so.I also remember it was pretty hard to fail CSEs. I cant remember all my grades but I did a few more alongside my A levels so had 13 0 levels. So yes, 2 CSEs is pretty low.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/12/2024 18:54

Hotflushesandchilblains · 08/12/2024 18:43

No, 2 CSEs was not good. I think the average was at least 5 and most people took between 9 and 11.

They may have taken them. How many of them did they pass and with what grades?

Silvertulips · 08/12/2024 18:52

A grade C at OLevel was difficult - there weren’t many B or C’s flying around and A was rare.

That said most kids left with 5 - maths English science’s then either art, typewriting, etc

No CSE in religion or sports for example.

2 is quite poor to be fair - but you were still guaranteed a job.

The jobs market has changed.

Jackiepumpkinhead · 08/12/2024 18:51

Jumell · 08/12/2024 17:08

Cos I thought getting 2 exams of which there is a huge course work element v impressive - lots of kids CBA with coursework

in fact a lot of kids cba

Would you think getting 2 GSCE’s was impressive? This is the weirdest post.

WhiteTippedCandle · 08/12/2024 18:48

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/12/2024 15:53

The old system of school exams in England (and I think Wales and NI too - different in Scotland) had two types of exams.

GCE stood for General Certificate of Education. There were two levels - O (Ordinary) and A (Advanced) Levels, taken at 16 and 18 respectively. Only a small minority of the school population took A levels. Most kids didn't take O levels either.

CSE - stood for Certificate of Secondary Education. The highest grade you could get in a CSE was equivalent to a bare pass in O level, IIRC. The idea was that they were more accessible and should prevent children leaving with nothing, as most did before then.

Two top grade CSEs in English and Maths - good.

Two bare passes in Woodwork and Needlework - not so great.

I took o levels, but there has been considerable articles in the press over the years to say that CSE’s were very difficult to get a good grade in, so were difficult qualifications to get rather than the second class certificate that some people regard them as.

I can remember my father who graded exams in the summer holidays, expressing the same thought too.

So if you got Grade 1 CSE’s you should have been very proud of yourself, in reality

Hotflushesandchilblains · 08/12/2024 18:43

No, 2 CSEs was not good. I think the average was at least 5 and most people took between 9 and 11.

Another2Cats · 08/12/2024 18:40

Notellinganyone · 08/12/2024 18:27

2 CSEs is pretty dire!I left a pretty rubbish comp in 1985 with 9 O Levels and 4 Alevels.

There was a report on school exams published in 1978 (The Waddell Report) about replacing O Levels and CSEs with a common exam - what became the GCSE.

This from para [5] explaining what percentage of the population each exam was intended to cover:

"The target populations of the two examinations are different, although with some overlap (the O Level examination tending to be aimed at the upper 20 per cent of the full ability range and CSE catering for the next 40 per cent)"

A grade 1 CSE certainly put you in the top 20% (equivalent to about a GCSE 7 nowadays) and a grade 2 or 3 CSE put you in the top 55% (about a GCSE 4-5 today).

A grad 4 or 5 CSE would be equivalent to a GCSE 3-4 today

Waddell Report (1978)

Waddell Report 'School Examinations' (1978)

https://education-uk.org/documents/waddell/waddell1978.html

adriftinadenofvipers · 08/12/2024 18:34

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/12/2024 17:46

It depends on when you're talking about. I went to a very academic school in the 1970s and it was extremely rare to get all As at either A or O level. By the 1990s it was a lot easier, possibly for the reason I've tried to explain upthread about the change in how the grade boundaries was established. There was a lot more teaching to the test by then, the National Curriculum had come in and schools were being judged by their exam results in league tables and by Ofsted.

I went to a very academic school in the 70s/80s and it wasn't as rare as you seem to think. One year a student achieved 5 A grades at A level. That was exceptional.

I myself got 6 As, 2 Bs (and a U lol!) in my O levels and 2 A 2 B at A level. There was a group of us who achieved similarly. Some went to Oxbridge.

adriftinadenofvipers · 08/12/2024 18:31

MerryTraveller · 08/12/2024 17:45

Princess Diana left school with about the same qualifications as your husband and was famously dim, so - unless your husband is dense - it is not a great reflection on the school! Pretty hard to be as dense as a royal though...

I don't think Princess Diana was dim actually - she wasn't academic but she had other attributes/accomplishments.

She wasn't born a royal so I am not sure how their intelligence and hers bore any relation to each other.

Pretty "dim' observation I'd say.

Goldengamer · 08/12/2024 18:29

Another way of looking at this ……

I left school in 1980 with 7 CSEs .
School back then had 4 years and you could stay and do a 5th year for A levels.
They decided the latter end of the 2nd year if you were bright enough to do O levels or you got put into CSE classes when you returned to do your 3/4th year after summer term .
I was very quiet and shy and hated school . I got 2 top grade CSEs for my favourite subjects and the rest were grades 2,3 and 4 .
I recently got a diagnosis for ADHD, which would totally make sense with how I was at school . I couldn’t concentrate , daydreamed and just didn’t ‘get’ maths .
My Two favourite subjects were French studies and Food/nutrition and I totally hyper focused on these making up fabulous written folders of coursework on these two subjects. The rest I wasn’t really bothered about.

I very highly suspect a lot of us CSE ers were ADHD ….. I went to a girls school and as we know, back then ADHD was mostly recognised in boys and not girls .
I’ve gone on to do well for myself work wise….. ok not to Uni standard but worked my way up career ladders . People laugh when I tell them my qualifications as apparently I look intelligent 😂….
i learnt maths by working in a pub when my kids were babies . I can speak and spell a lot better than most young people I know. I’m shocked at the standard of education now.
CSEs are not a judge of how intelligent a child would have been as I’ve heard so more similar stories to my own .

Notellinganyone · 08/12/2024 18:27

2 CSEs is pretty dire!I left a pretty rubbish comp in 1985 with 9 O Levels and 4 Alevels.

tachetastic · 08/12/2024 18:27

MolkosTeenageAngst · 08/12/2024 18:22

So you had a terrible school and still managed to pass 10/10 GCSEs yet you think a school where a student only passed 2/7 exams was good? Where on earth is your logic there?

Confession time.

I took 10 GCSEs in 1990. I got 5 As and 3 Bs in all my academic subjects, plus 2 Ds in Art and Drama. These two were examined by a different board to the rest so they are on a separate GCSE certificate.

I have destroyed all evidence that I ever took Art and Drama at GCSE and my entire education and career has been built on a lie that I took 8 GCSEs and got all As and Bs.

😱😱😱😂

adriftinadenofvipers · 08/12/2024 18:25

adriftinadenofvipers · 08/12/2024 17:14

An A wasn't that rare. A load of my classmates got them back in the day. I got 2 A and 2 B.

There was no A though. A irrationally pisses me off lol!

A star ffs!! The * didn't show up!

I was talking about A levels, don't think that was clear.

Another2Cats · 08/12/2024 18:24

Owly11 · 08/12/2024 17:52

2 CSEs is really really dire. CSEs are below GCSEs (or O levels as they were then) - if you got the absolute highest grade in a CSE it was equivalent to a scrape of a pass on GCSE. However there were about 9 grades at CSE and if you were likely to get the top grade you would have been sitting the GCSE instead (or as well). Most people took between 5 and 10 CSEs or GCSEs so to only get 2 is shit. It's virtually impossible to fail a CSE.

Did you really mean to be quite so dismissive?

"However there were about 9 grades at CSE"

No there weren't, there were five.

"...if you were likely to get the top grade you would have been sitting the GCSE instead (or as well)"

That certainly didn't happen in my school. As I mentioned above, I was lucky to get a Grade 1 in French (I was pretty rubbish at languages compared to other subjects). The school never considered putting me in for O Level.
.

"...so to only get 2 is shit. It's virtually impossible to fail a CSE."

I hate to be the person to say this, but could you share your sources for this please?

ExhaustedHousewife · 08/12/2024 18:23

"Slagged down to the ground"
Are you 12,OP?

MolkosTeenageAngst · 08/12/2024 18:22

Jumell · 08/12/2024 18:17

My school was terrible and I underperformed- I even put nonsense answers in the actual geography exam !

got 3 As at A level though at an FE college 💪 I worked from Day 1 🙌

So you had a terrible school and still managed to pass 10/10 GCSEs yet you think a school where a student only passed 2/7 exams was good? Where on earth is your logic there?

MildredSauce · 08/12/2024 18:21

Jumell · 08/12/2024 18:17

My school was terrible and I underperformed- I even put nonsense answers in the actual geography exam !

got 3 As at A level though at an FE college 💪 I worked from Day 1 🙌

You? Nonsense answer? I CANNOT believe you have ever given a nonsense answer to anything🤐

tachetastic · 08/12/2024 18:19

tachetastic · 08/12/2024 18:17

I was one of the first years that took GCSEs (1990), so everything was constantly being compared to O-levels and CSEs.

I think the top grade CSE was equivalent to a "C" at GCSE, so if he got two of those then that's good.

Edited

At that time average grades were way lower than they are now and C's were considered good.

tachetastic · 08/12/2024 18:17

Jumell · 08/12/2024 15:48

My ex went to an all boys’ comprehensive school in London. It’s been slagged off to the ground on here as being rough, not being the school of choice for MC parents, results are dire etc etc .

However he did leave the school in one piece and with 2 CSEs no less!! (OK showing his age a bit!) But the pearl clutchiness about his school on MN is immense !! 🤣 - I didn’t do CSEs btw so don’t truly know how good 2 CSEs is.
He left school in 1986 FYI - I was still a young school kid then, Dunno - was 2 CSEs good for 1986?!

FWIW the comp I went to wasn’t short for ‘comprehensive’ - more compost heap - but that’s possibly the subject of another thread. !

I was one of the first years that took GCSEs (1990), so everything was constantly being compared to O-levels and CSEs.

I think the top grade CSE was equivalent to a "C" at GCSE, so if he got two of those then that's good.

Jumell · 08/12/2024 18:17

MolkosTeenageAngst · 08/12/2024 18:15

And if you’d failed 7 of your exams and only gotten 3 GCSEs would you really think that was pretty good going and the sign of a good school? If not I don’t know how you can think only passing 2 out of 7 exams was good for your ex. Even if it’s a different exam system you must understand the point of exams and qualifications is to be passed!

Edited

My school was terrible and I underperformed- I even put nonsense answers in the actual geography exam !

got 3 As at A level though at an FE college 💪 I worked from Day 1 🙌

OP posts:
suki1964 · 08/12/2024 18:17

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/12/2024 18:08

Also want to point out that dyslexia was not recognised until the 1980s (I think) and even in the early 90s there were still lots of people questioning if it was a real condtion or something the middle classes had dreamed up to explain why their children weren't doing as well at school as they thought they should. In earlier generations there would have been large numbers of children struggling with basic literacy and numeracy, with minimal support in school. The most severe cases would have been sent to special school and the rest would have had a miserable time being labelled as lazy and thick in mainstream classes of 40+. No wonder many left school with nothing much in the way of qualifications. Some were lucky and from being round pegs in square holes at school would have found a career where their talents and strengths could be used. A lot wouldn't.

There were no such diagnosis when I was at school. I remember when Dyslexia was being first brought to attention and it seemed to be fixated on people who had trouble with reading or math, neither of which I had, I could read and I was pretty good with maths so it didnt seem to apply to me

And then ADHD was given a name, and yet again it was shown as very aggressive children needing to be drugged to the hilt - again not me

Yet Im now officially diagnosed with Dyslexia, ADHD, Autism, Dyspraxia and the latest which they cant officially diagnose as its not recognised here (it is in England ) APD. Im 60 and have only been getting diagnosed since my late 30s , the APD was just flagged this year.

Another2Cats · 08/12/2024 18:17

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/12/2024 15:53

The old system of school exams in England (and I think Wales and NI too - different in Scotland) had two types of exams.

GCE stood for General Certificate of Education. There were two levels - O (Ordinary) and A (Advanced) Levels, taken at 16 and 18 respectively. Only a small minority of the school population took A levels. Most kids didn't take O levels either.

CSE - stood for Certificate of Secondary Education. The highest grade you could get in a CSE was equivalent to a bare pass in O level, IIRC. The idea was that they were more accessible and should prevent children leaving with nothing, as most did before then.

Two top grade CSEs in English and Maths - good.

Two bare passes in Woodwork and Needlework - not so great.

"The highest grade you could get in a CSE was equivalent to a bare pass in O level, IIRC."

Yes. I was rubbish at languages so ended up doing CSE French. Fortunately I managed to get a Grade 1 which was counted as the equivalent of a Grade C at O Level.

Why was this fortunate? Well, I applied to UCL and back in those days (and, up until 2020) they still required an O level pass in a foreign language at O level for ALL courses or you were otherwise required to take and pass a foreign language course before you graduated. So, even though I studied a course at UCL similar to the current MORSE course at Warwick I was also required to have a modern foreign language at O Level.
.

"Two bare passes in Woodwork and Needlework..."

That does take me back. I went to an ex-secondary modern and we were the first cohort not to take the 11 plus in our county and the first to go to a comprehensive school.

The school was in a very mixed area in what was then a "New Town" (although it was always a city). It was set up very much to offer practical skills as much as academic skills. There were classrooms full of typewriters, ovens for cookery, lathes and drills for woodwork and metalwork and even, I remember, pouring molten metal into sand casts.

Certainly, everybody was required to do metalwork and woodwork; cookery and needlework in the first to third years (year 7 to 9 nowadays). However, my attempts at both a wooden aeroplane and a stuffed soft toy were equally terrible.

But, despite this, it was very clear that, when given a choice, boys overwhelmingly chose technical drawing and girls chose typing. (by the way, can you even imagine nowadays a school offering technical drawing and typing as subjects in their own right?). Btw, I chose technical drawing and really enjoyed it.

However, things really changed when I got to university. For the first time in my life I came across people who were extremely focused and driven, they knew what they wanted out of life and believed that they could get it.

What was the difference? Well, a lot of the people I met at university came from much more academically focused schools, private schools or just generally from a very upper-middle class background. They certainly hadn't learnt that a good job for a girl was a "nice" office job and they certainly hadn't been taught needlework or typing at school.

For example, in the Hall of Residence where I stayed in the first and third years there were quite a number of students from the various London medical schools.

The one thing that they all had in common was a belief that any job or profession was open to them if they simply tried hard enough - I think that there were actually more women than men studying medicine, even back then, and it simply didn't occur to these girls to think any differently than that she could and would become a doctor. What they also had in common, was a rather different family and school background to mine.

All very different from the sort of environment I had grown up in prior to going to university.

The sort of expectations and role models that you have when younger really can make a huge difference to believing what you are capable of doing. It really can be hugely difficult to even comprehend going to university when you’ve never met anyone who has.

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