To be surprised you mumsnetters criticised my ex’s school !!

Tripartite system: secondary grammars, secondary technology colleges, secondary moderns. 'secondary' means education after the age of 11, as mandated under the 1944 Education Act.
Secondary Moderns did CSE. Except for a few, which did 0 level, as did the one I attended.

This is an odd thread.

Its worth noting that the old GCE/CSE system was designed in the era of grammars, secondary moderns and a school leaving age of 14/15.

'O' levels were targeted at the top 20% (so mostly the grammar and near miss cohorts), CSEs at the next 40% and the bottom 40% were assumed to be leaving school pre exams or taking vocational qualifications. As @Grammarnut points out there were less places for girls at grammar schools than boys and they could miss out on 'O' levels if placed in one of the secondary mods which did not teach both sets of exams. I also remember girls not being allowed to take a place at grammar school by their families, as the incremental cost wasn't merited for a girl (who would only marry anyway).
In practice when the school leaving age rose to 15 and then 16 most schools shoehorned the bottom 40% "vocational pupils" through a few CSEs but the exams were not designed for them.

When I was a child and even when my DC were small we all eyed the Scottish education system as the quality to aim for. That seems to have changed dramatically over the past 20 years and I don't know if that is due to the changes in education policy.

That passion for learning needs to come from parents and be reinforced at school. My parents always encouraged us to learn and do well at school. They also used WEA opportunities and evening classes to pursue their own education as there was simply no opportunity for higher ed when they had left school. (Even with the school grades, higher ed cost money and families needed them at work).

When I was at primary school we all knew that education or a skilled trade was the route to a secure future and potential better things. This wasn't just a minority culture attitude, the white kids/parents at my school were equally aware of education as their child's big opportunity. I think the "too cool for school" mindset ascribed to white working class children its a more recent phenomenon.

I did my exams in 1982. The law said that you had to stay until the summer but I had one friend who left to work with his dad as a roofer and remember a teacher saying that that was probably a better use of his time.
I had one friend who left to have a baby and another who just stopped coming to school.

I agree that league tables and the need to report on all students' results at specific points has changed many things and not all students have benefited from that approach.

As far as I can recall, by the time I was 16 you had to stay at school till the end of the academic year, but I'm not convinced anybody bothered much if a pupil just stopped coming during that year. Earlier it had been possible to leave at the end of the term after your birthday, I think. The change was supposed to ensure that everybody who could took exams at the end of their final year of compulsory education. Didn't have a lot of effect back then. Changing to GCSEs and judging schools by their results has had more effect, but not necessarily in a good way.

And Fray Bentos. She also asked for advice on what 56 year old men are like-when she herself is at least 52 going by the majority of her threads

I can barely keep up. I think she's the one who has a crush on a Findus Crispy Pancake, right????

Her relationship history varies WILDLY too 🤣
This is her 3rd or 4th thread today alone

The OP isnt quite sure how old she is ( if even a she ) because every thread shes something/someone different

It's sad that schools fail to develop a love of learning, reading and thinking for their own sake in so many children - in fact, quite the reverse in some cases

I’d agree with this except I’d say it also starts with the parents. Some kids don’t have a single book in their home and their parents don’t make an effort to get to a local library. I grew up in a working class area and sent books to two childhood friends (separately) for their kids. They both marvelled at the range of books and asked where I got them from as if it was some mystery. I was baffled as they both had 3 kids and their oldest kids were around 12.

How did they not know you get lots of children’s books from Amazon or Waterstones or your local indie? Had they not bought their kids books before?

I was able to read from age 4 and loved visiting the library after school from age 5. I was one of the first in my street to have a computer and dial up internet in the 90s and I loved trawling through the CD encyclopaedias to read about history 😆

Schools are so restricted by the curriculum which unfortunately has become too focused on technical stuff like grammar etc from what I hear, so it’s parents who have far more creative freedom in this respect.

Over 90% of people had at least 1 CSE or O level.

Many of those who didn't have a single pass had already left school before the summer exam period (including a couple of my friends) or were in special schools - which often didn't enter kids into exams at all.

If someone took their CSE and passed 2, that's fine. But it's not great.

My very small SEN boarding school only offered CSEs, so I sat six and passed them all, four at grade 1. But I was advised that it would be a good idea to get some actual O' Levels - not everyone saw CSE grade 1 as on a par with O' Levels. The local FE college offered me a place, on condition that I got at least 4 passes at grade 3. On that basis alone, 2 CSEs is very minimal and not much of a leg-up to the next tier. If your passes were in maths and English, they'd offer a measure of your literacy and numeracy, but even then, you might be advised to go for further basic skills training, especially for the more sought-after apprenticeship schemes. If you had your eye on A'Levels, as I did, you'd need a lot more than a bit of paper confirming you could string a sentence together and add up. As to the latter, I couldn't. I had a horrible maths block (possible dyscalculia) so my written work in everything else had to be really good. I don't think a bare pass at CSE would have done me a lot of good - fortunately, it wasn't an issue.

Your ex...? Is this that 56-year-old - who may or may not be in a relationship - you are obsessed with?

What is wrong with you 😵

Yes, they were the next level down. You could get A, B or C as passing grades for O levels, and CSEs were graded on numbers I think, with 5 levels if memory serves. And the top mark in CSE was considered equivalent to an O level grade C. But I think they were designed to be slightly less academically rigorous. What is really funny is that once I passed A levels and got to uni they were meaningless. And now in my career, the grade I got in my degree is pretty meaningless too. I know lots of great people who are very smart who did poorly at school. And lots of people with lots of qualifications who are idiots!

I agree we haven't got vocational education right in this country but it's depressing that some teenagers can't reach even a very basic standard in the core subjects and a few others after over ten years of compulsory education. Not only that, but now as 40 years ago a fairly large number of them (and their parents) can't even see the point in trying. Education is not just about getting the pieces of paper necessary to get a job or progress to the next stage. It's sad that schools fail to develop a love of learning, reading and thinking for their own sake in so many children - in fact, quite the reverse in some cases.

Apologies Einstein, if we aren't all academics...

I’m of the GCSE era, but I think CSEs were for students that weren’t academically suitable for O levels.

Surely thousands of kids have been through since your husband got his 2 cse

To be fair @Owly11 is right; even if you might not like it.
This is where comprehensive education is wrong in my view; yes everyone should get proficient in core subjects but none academic kids should be given the option of learning trades instead of being forced to get pointless qualifications that carry no weight post school. Two CSEs wouldn't help get any job. People I know that gained that level of academic achievement at school went on to become successful landscape gardeners, fencers etc. There was no benefit to anyone of forcing them through a Comprehensive education.

Now I am thinking about it @Jumell, I remembered that I took Chemistry at CSE although I was in O levels for all the other subjects - but I was bad at Chem so they put me in for the CSE (its a really long time ago so had forgotten it). I did not care about it at all so amused myself by colouring in the circles in pretty patterns and did not open the question book at all. then left as soon as I was allowed to leave the hall. And I still got a passing grade!

As someone who got 5 As at AS Level, and 3 at A Level, I was so cross when they introduced A*s!

You have done my ego the world of good by sying that, Another2Cats. I never considered I was anything special but I did get my 'O' levels - so I am in the top 20%! Whoopee! I enjoyed doing my 'O' levels actually, can still remember a lot of what I learned, and wrote in the exams, or some of them. I managed to BS my way through some, used to be good at that.

If he left that school in 1986 then why on earth are you fretting about what the MN opinion of it is now? A lot has probably changed in most schools in the last 38 years.

And no, 2 CSEs was never good. CSEs were for the people who couldn't pass O' levels.