Page 2 | To be surprised you mumsnetters criticised my ex’s school !!

Jumell · 2024-12-08T15:48:17+00:00

My ex went to an all boys’ comprehensive school in London. It’s been slagged off to the ground on here as being rough, not being the school of choice for MC parents, results are dire etc etc . However he did leave the school in one piece and with 2 CSEs no less!! (OK showing his age a bit!) But the pearl clutchiness about his school on MN is immense !! 🤣 - I didn’t do CSEs btw so don’t truly know how good 2 CSEs is. He left school in 1986 FYI - I was still a young school kid then, Dunno - was 2 CSEs good for 1986?! FWIW the comp I went to wasn’t short for ‘comprehensive’ - more compost heap - but that’s possibly the subject of another thread. !

fiftiesmum · 09/12/2024 09:01

fiftiesmum · 09/12/2024 08:34

People in the 70's and 80's got into Oxbridge with two E's at A level by "passing" the entrance exams and an interview.
In those days you needed to get 5 O level passes and 2 A level passes to get into university (IE fees paid, access to maintenance grant and travel costs) some non Oxbridge courses insisted on slightly higher than that.

At the other end of the academic scale there was no need for exam passes to get into most jobs

And interview questions were something like "Is that right that your father was at this college?", "Is your mother the Queen?"
And you got jobs because daddy/dad/the old fella put in a word

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 09/12/2024 08:40

A 2 Es offer was as I understand a sign that the university was satisfied that you met their standards without waiting to see your A level results (if you applied before you'd taken them). It was described as a matriculation offer because that was the minimum standard required to matriculate, or register as a student. I got one for my course, which I think was standard at the time. The Admissions Tutor was a lovely, lovely man who saw no reason to put applicants under undue pressure and used the interview as a way to find out how interested we were (and, I suppose, whether we would be interesting people to teach and have hanging around the department for three years). It will have helped that most of us had had an excellent grounding in our subject at school and he knew he could rely on that. Worked very well. Next to no dropouts or failures in my time there.

x2boys · 09/12/2024 08:40

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 09/12/2024 08:29

You're right. It was much later than I thought that kids had to stay on until the end of what's now year 11 (in England).

From Wikipedia:

Education Act 1996
Between 1976 and 1997, the minimum school leaving arrangements were:

A child whose sixteenth birthday falls in the period 1 September to 31 January inclusive, may leave compulsory schooling at the end of the Spring term (the following Easter).
A child whose sixteenth birthday falls in the period 1 February to 31 August, may leave on the Friday before the last Monday in May.

Under the Education Act 1996, a new single school leaving date was set for 1998 and all subsequent years. This was set as the last Friday in June in the school year which the child reaches the age of 16.

(Since raised to 18 effectively - law now says 16-18 yos should either be in full-time education or in at least part-time training/education, I believe.)

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Whilst 16-18 year old are supposed to be in some kinds of education or training I don't know how tightly this is monitored
My son is 18 at Xmas and at college ,he was speaking to a neighbours son yesterday who was also in his year at school I'm not sure what happened, but the lad didn't sit any GCSE,s and didn't enroll in college and he's working with his dad ,but with no GCSE,s that can't be an apprenticeship.

fiftiesmum · 09/12/2024 08:34

People in the 70's and 80's got into Oxbridge with two E's at A level by "passing" the entrance exams and an interview.
In those days you needed to get 5 O level passes and 2 A level passes to get into university (IE fees paid, access to maintenance grant and travel costs) some non Oxbridge courses insisted on slightly higher than that.

At the other end of the academic scale there was no need for exam passes to get into most jobs

Sharptonguedwoman · 09/12/2024 08:30

SpanThatWorld · 08/12/2024 15:51

2 CSEs wasn't great, even then.

Can only agree, sadly.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 09/12/2024 08:29

x2boys · 09/12/2024 08:09

I'm 51 and left school in 1990 I think we had Easter leavers?

Show quote history

You're right. It was much later than I thought that kids had to stay on until the end of what's now year 11 (in England).

From Wikipedia:

Education Act 1996
Between 1976 and 1997, the minimum school leaving arrangements were:

A child whose sixteenth birthday falls in the period 1 September to 31 January inclusive, may leave compulsory schooling at the end of the Spring term (the following Easter).
A child whose sixteenth birthday falls in the period 1 February to 31 August, may leave on the Friday before the last Monday in May.

Under the Education Act 1996, a new single school leaving date was set for 1998 and all subsequent years. This was set as the last Friday in June in the school year which the child reaches the age of 16.

(Since raised to 18 effectively - law now says 16-18 yos should either be in full-time education or in at least part-time training/education, I believe.)

Education Act 1996 - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Act_1996

x2boys · 09/12/2024 08:09

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/12/2024 20:59

As far as I can recall, by the time I was 16 you had to stay at school till the end of the academic year, but I'm not convinced anybody bothered much if a pupil just stopped coming during that year. Earlier it had been possible to leave at the end of the term after your birthday, I think. The change was supposed to ensure that everybody who could took exams at the end of their final year of compulsory education. Didn't have a lot of effect back then. Changing to GCSEs and judging schools by their results has had more effect, but not necessarily in a good way.

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I'm 51 and left school in 1990 I think we had Easter leavers?

sickandtiredofitallnow · 09/12/2024 08:05

2 CSEs is dire HOWEVER do not start comparing then with now. No one ever took 10 or 12 exams, no one came out of your bog standard comp with 10+ O levels.

I ended up with 1 O Level and 4 CSEs however I did move schools in the 4th year (yr 10)

As other POs have said, it can take a couple of generations for a school to lose a bad reputation.

Ohthatsabitshit · 09/12/2024 07:54

EBearhug · 09/12/2024 07:49

I think we can all agree that 5 Os and BC at A levels would have been unlikely to get him into any university.

Not now, but they are quite respectable A-level grades for the late '60s, when not many people got As, unlike today where many do.

Interesting that you say that. 2 rather than 3 A levels would I think have been unusual and 5Os more so. He definitely was waved through, but I think probably in everyone’s best interest he was.

Ohthatsabitshit · 09/12/2024 07:52

x2boys · 09/12/2024 07:46

They would have hot him into a polytechnic, my sister had a B and 2 E,s and got into a university that had just become a university having formerly been a polytechnic, a B and a C would have given him more points I think than a B and two E,s

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That was more likely 20 years after Charles was at uni (late 60s), I think early 90s? Plus 3 A levels is very different than 2 and 5Os would have been unusual in the university population.

EBearhug · 09/12/2024 07:49

I think we can all agree that 5 Os and BC at A levels would have been unlikely to get him into any university.

Not now, but they are quite respectable A-level grades for the late '60s, when not many people got As, unlike today where many do.

User820825 · 09/12/2024 07:47

missod · 08/12/2024 22:39

This thread has proper cheered me up.😂

Me too. It's phenomenal.

x2boys · 09/12/2024 07:46

Ohthatsabitshit · 09/12/2024 00:13

I found an article in the Tatler

he achieved five O-Levels (GCSEs) and two A-Levels; a B in History and C in French. He then went on to Cambridge University, graduating with a 2:2 degree in History. Allegedly, his bodyguard who attended all his lectures with him sat the exams too - and beat him to a First.

I think we can all agree that 5 Os and BC at A levels would have been unlikely to get him into any university.

They would have hot him into a polytechnic, my sister had a B and 2 E,s and got into a university that had just become a university having formerly been a polytechnic, a B and a C would have given him more points I think than a B and two E,s

Ohthatsabitshit · 09/12/2024 00:13

I found an article in the Tatler

he achieved five O-Levels (GCSEs) and two A-Levels; a B in History and C in French. He then went on to Cambridge University, graduating with a 2:2 degree in History. Allegedly, his bodyguard who attended all his lectures with him sat the exams too - and beat him to a First.

I think we can all agree that 5 Os and BC at A levels would have been unlikely to get him into any university.

Ohthatsabitshit · 09/12/2024 00:02

How many did he get?

AngelicKaty · 08/12/2024 23:57

Ohthatsabitshit · 08/12/2024 23:37

I don’t think he would have got in if he wasn’t the POW do you?

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Into Cambridge? No, absolutely not (possibly another uni' but definitely not Oxbridge). But that wasn't the point I was making - I was correcting a pp who said they thought he only achieved 2 CSEs.

Spidey66 · 08/12/2024 23:57

Nb forgot to add in my brothers school it was olevels or nothing. I suspect this was the same in private schools especially the likes the Royal Family went to.

Spidey66 · 08/12/2024 23:53

Oh and I doubt the King sat CSEs. They were generally only available in comprehensives. My brothers, for instance, went to an independent school on an assisted places scheme, and it wasn't an option there.

Spidey66 · 08/12/2024 23:48

It was very difficult to actually FAIL a CSE. They were graded 1-5, with a 1 being equivalent to a C at Olevel. You could technically get an Unclassified but it was usually part coursework and part exam so to get an Unclassified you would have to a) not do any coursework at all and b) not do the exam.

So passing only 2 CSEs wasn't great, even for the worst comprehensive!

Ohthatsabitshit · 08/12/2024 23:37

AngelicKaty · 08/12/2024 23:07

Not true. After doing A levels, King Charles attended Trinity College, Cambridge, where he read Archaeology & Anthropology and then History where he obtained a BA in 1970.

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I don’t think he would have got in if he wasn’t the POW do you?

AngelicKaty · 08/12/2024 23:07

Ohthatsabitshit · 08/12/2024 16:03

There were CSEs, O levels, AO levels, A levels, and S levels.

I think the king has 3 CSEs?

Not true. After doing A levels, King Charles attended Trinity College, Cambridge, where he read Archaeology & Anthropology and then History where he obtained a BA in 1970.

Grammarnut · 08/12/2024 22:52

C8H10N4O2 · 08/12/2024 21:43

Its worth noting that the old GCE/CSE system was designed in the era of grammars, secondary moderns and a school leaving age of 14/15.

'O' levels were targeted at the top 20% (so mostly the grammar and near miss cohorts), CSEs at the next 40% and the bottom 40% were assumed to be leaving school pre exams or taking vocational qualifications. As @Grammarnut points out there were less places for girls at grammar schools than boys and they could miss out on 'O' levels if placed in one of the secondary mods which did not teach both sets of exams. I also remember girls not being allowed to take a place at grammar school by their families, as the incremental cost wasn't merited for a girl (who would only marry anyway).
In practice when the school leaving age rose to 15 and then 16 most schools shoehorned the bottom 40% "vocational pupils" through a few CSEs but the exams were not designed for them.

When I was a child and even when my DC were small we all eyed the Scottish education system as the quality to aim for. That seems to have changed dramatically over the past 20 years and I don't know if that is due to the changes in education policy.

That passion for learning needs to come from parents and be reinforced at school. My parents always encouraged us to learn and do well at school. They also used WEA opportunities and evening classes to pursue their own education as there was simply no opportunity for higher ed when they had left school. (Even with the school grades, higher ed cost money and families needed them at work).

When I was at primary school we all knew that education or a skilled trade was the route to a secure future and potential better things. This wasn't just a minority culture attitude, the white kids/parents at my school were equally aware of education as their child's big opportunity. I think the "too cool for school" mindset ascribed to white working class children its a more recent phenomenon.

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Agree with you so much. A knowledge-rich curriculum is so needed, but we still get fed the 'skills' curriculum which includes teaching unteachable things like resiliance and critical thinking. Fwiw critical thinking needs a knowledger-rich curriculum because you cannot think about or analyse what you do not know. My thoughts on the Special Theory of Relativity are worthless - I don't know anything much about it. My thoughts on Richard III probably more worthwhile since I studied medieval history and in particular the Wars of the Roses and the usurpation of Henry VII (there, I showed where I stand on that lot!).
The point is you have to have something to think with and about - you cannot 'think' in a vacuum.

Polkadotz · 08/12/2024 22:42

missod · 08/12/2024 22:39

This thread has proper cheered me up.😂

Same 😂 I’ve honestly been crying with laughter.

missod · 08/12/2024 22:39

This thread has proper cheered me up.😂

Grammarnut · 08/12/2024 22:38

Topseyt123 · 08/12/2024 17:54

What a weird post!

Of course, academia is not everything and many people struggle with exams for a variety of reasons. Also, a lot can change in 40 years at a school. It won't even be run by the same people anymore.

However, 2 CSEs is pretty poor. I don't think you have said what grades he actually got.

I was at school (a bog standard comprehensive) during the GCE O Level and CSE era. GCE O Level stood for General Certificate of Education Ordinary Level and was the highest tier of qualification you could usually take at age 16. The pass grades were A - C if I remember rightly. I got 7 O Levels in 1982. The very first GCSEs were just starting to creep in by then and they were the combining of the GCE O Level and the CSE system. The birth of the system we have today.

Then there was a lower tier which was the CSE, which stood for Certificate of Secondary Education. It was aimed generally at those who were less academic or would struggle with O Levels. I think it was graded 1 - 7 (?). Grade 1 corresponded to O Level grade C, so a pass a Of Level. The rest were just CSE grades. I did take a couple of CSEs in subjects that I had to take but was not great at. They were alongside my O Levels.

Two CSEs was not great even back in 1986 unfortunately, so you are being very disingenuous trying to suggest that it was.

Edited

O levels graded 1 to 6 (1 was highest) and later A to E. GCSEs graded A to E. O level grad 6 was equivalent to grade 1 CSE.