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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want to see my friend without her toddler?

272 replies

harrietmg · 07/12/2024 14:01

I’ve been friends with her since primary school, over 20 years, and we’ve always been super close. We were each other’s maids of honor, and she’s one of my best friends. Since having her daughter, Sophie (2.5 years old), she insists on bringing her to every meet-up. At first, it made sense because Sophie was breastfed. Now, she says she doesn’t want to miss any time with her daughter, and lately, she frames it as “so fun” to have Sophie along now that she’s move grownup, calling her “another one of the besties” who enjoys our outings and is “part of the gang”.

The reality is less fun. Brunches involve constant interruptions: “Don’t touch that,” “Let me wipe your hands,” “Don’t shout,” “Get down before you fall,” or “Don’t hug Aunty Harriet with jammy hands.” While I understand this is normal toddler behavior, it’s hard to relax or have a proper conversation when I’m dodging sticky hugs or watching her manage Sophie the whole time.

When I’ve suggested meeting without Sophie, she always says, “I don’t want to miss her childhood because of brunch.” We’ve tried playground meet-ups, but those mostly consist of us running after Sophie to keep her safe while barely talking. I love children, but sometimes I just want time with her. For her sake too: she’s mentioned losing 90% of her friends because “if someone doesn’t want to spend time with my child, they aren’t a true friend.”

She has a nanny-housekeeper four days a week and regularly asks her mum to babysit when she and her husband go on date nights (about once a month), but otherwise, she refuses to leave Sophie. I’ve suggested meeting after Sophie’s bedtime or letting her husband put Sophie to bed, but she says she doesn’t want to miss bedtime, and by then, it’s too late to go anywhere.

I have two children of my own (a 5-year-old and a 9-month-old) so I understand the challenges of maintaining pre-motherhood friendships as a parent. But I’m also conscious that, as lovely as my children are, they’re not necessarily welcome at every social gathering. I’ve always made an effort to respect that.

Now, she’s asked if she can bring Sophie to my 30th, a 7 pm dinner at a high-end restaurant, then leave halfway through when Sophie gets tired. I love Sophie, but I don’t think it’s fair to have a toddler crying, running around, or throwing food (as toddlers do) at what’s meant to be a special evening with friends.

OP posts:
harrietmg · 13/12/2024 22:43

@Hocuspoc @wizzywig
She is the same with events where dad is invited (eg my birthday - she is welcome to come with or without her husband, I know him well enough that he was invited but equally she's the original friend so if only one comes it would be Sophie's mum). The only times she leaves Sophie is for date nights because she says that's for Sophie's sake so they have a good relationship, but she's recently declined a wedding which was under 30 min drive from her and the husband was invited.

OP posts:
Feelinadequate23 · 13/12/2024 22:22

OP you are an absolute saint to be putting up with this nonsense! I think I’d have backed off a long time ago. Is she planning on having a second child? Cos what’s she doing to do when poor baby needs feeding/ rocking to sleep but poor Sophie also “wants mummy”?! Hopefully that will knock some sense into her but maybe not!

Hocuspoc · 13/12/2024 22:07

Rockchicknana · 13/12/2024 18:16

How well do you know her husband? Could you have a private chat with him and say you're concerned about her co-dependency with her toddler? It all sounds very unhealthy to me. She sounds very much like my friend with her dog - if I manage to get her out without him she's fretting the whole time!

Pages and pages here and only a handful picked up that she is infact avoiding leaving the child with the husband around (she only leave the child at home if he is not there - i .e. husband is also going out with her).
But suggesting OP to nudge the husband and potentially help leave this poor child at home (with him around potentially) just so she can have another friend come to her birthday, really takes the cookie for me 🤦🏼‍♀️

Pussycat22 · 13/12/2024 21:28

SilverChampagne · 07/12/2024 14:16

Jesus. Tell her not to bother coming.

She’d be the sole focus of the evening if she did, crying into her drink and other histrionics as her heart tears.
She’s either a total muppet or she’s unwell.

I think you're right I think she's unwell .

Deeperthantheocean · 13/12/2024 21:25

With the extra info that she can easily do this I think she should! Who wouldn't want some free adult time? X

wizzywig · 13/12/2024 21:20

Could there be abuse towards Sophie from her dad?

FozzieP · 13/12/2024 21:17

I think you have a choice here; put up and shut up or be prepared to be one of the 90%. Judging by the histrionics she appears to be having not getting her own way, I think I’d opt for the latter

sushiandarollie · 13/12/2024 21:17

I was a bit like this ,in that I’d been through so much ivf wise to get my child I had really bad anxiety leaving him and found myself thinking well I’ve spent years wanting this and going through it all to then want to spend time without them. I couldn’t get my head around wanting to go out. My child was also a very easy baby and we had evenings every night watching tv etc as he slept well so I never felt like I needed a break from it. However the difference is that I have a couple of friends and they too are all swept in the the whole being at home being a mum , breastfeeding into toddler years and I’ve actually come to realise that I would go out if my friends would. Is she anxious? Been through ivf ? Sad that she’ll never experience it again if she’s unable to have another? You need to stand your ground with your bday. I think she’ll hopefully learn in time she doesn’t need to be like this. But I do think it’s not always coming from being mean ir anything. Maybe she just doesn’t see it

OhcantthInkofaname · 13/12/2024 20:44

I'd never say this to her but she needs another child. The pressure on Sophie will be intense as she grows.

Lollipop81 · 13/12/2024 20:18

I thought you was being unreasonable until I read she has a nanny. How bizarre! I rarely leave my children but that’s because I don’t have anyone to really leave them with (that I trust enough). But if she leaves them with a nanny and has date nights with her husband I can’t see the issue.
i would put my foot down with your 30th. If your own kids aren’t going, and she clearly hasn’t got problems getting babysitters then it would be a definite no from me. Her behaviour seems quite odd in all honesty.

DisabledDemon · 13/12/2024 20:06

harrietmg · 07/12/2024 14:12

I said "no", to which she didn't reply anything at the time but then messaged that, she didn't want to say anything in front of Sophie, but it's making her heart tear as a parent. As much as she'd like to celebrate me, she knows that this would mean missing a bedtime and there's only so many times Sophie will want to be put to bed, you blink and she'll be too old. So yes she will come but will likely be thinking of Sophie most of the time anyway (her words)

She sounds obsessive and utterly tedious - and if she can go on date nights, she can certainly attend your dinner without going into a decline.

Perhaps it would be better if she doesn't come! Do you want a whole evening of her wistfully sighing, 'Oh, I wonder how little Sophie's doing? I do miss her!'

Trishthedish · 13/12/2024 19:35

harrietmg · 07/12/2024 14:12

I said "no", to which she didn't reply anything at the time but then messaged that, she didn't want to say anything in front of Sophie, but it's making her heart tear as a parent. As much as she'd like to celebrate me, she knows that this would mean missing a bedtime and there's only so many times Sophie will want to be put to bed, you blink and she'll be too old. So yes she will come but will likely be thinking of Sophie most of the time anyway (her words)

Tough. There is a time and place for children and at your 30th birthday party is not one of them.

Jack80 · 13/12/2024 19:27

Maybe go round her house when the nanny is in or after bedtime

CestLaVie123 · 13/12/2024 19:21

Ok I'm pretty sentimental and time-strapped and understanding of parents needing to bring kids - but woah your friend is insane

Rockchicknana · 13/12/2024 18:16

How well do you know her husband? Could you have a private chat with him and say you're concerned about her co-dependency with her toddler? It all sounds very unhealthy to me. She sounds very much like my friend with her dog - if I manage to get her out without him she's fretting the whole time!

TheTavern · 13/12/2024 18:15

She is being unreasonable, not you.

Washingforweeks · 13/12/2024 13:43

I’d explain that as a mother yourself, you need downtime with no children- you understand she doesn’t feel this way but for your meal it’s a child free occasion

JollyZebra · 12/12/2024 23:29

Tell her no and to think of it as a "date night" with friends. If she refuses to come, her loss. Enjoy your meal, it's your celebration. Don't overthink this, it's really not worth the brain work.

Findinganewme · 12/12/2024 18:13

I fully agree that it’s very healthy to have time to be yourself, for the person you are, without kids around. At the same time;

  1. your friend isn’t where you are. Her toddler doesn’t sound like much fun during your catchups, but for whatever reason, this is where your friend is. It may be mum-guilt, because she has a nanny for four days a week, or she may be at this ‘I’m 100% obsessed with my child’ phase era?
  2. if you tell your friend to not bring her child, you may alienate her and damage your friendship
  3. it is absolutely reasonable for you to say that your 30th is a no-kid event. Not even your own children.

what I would do, is perhaps share in a very general way, how important you think it is to have pockets of time away from your kids, and why. Eg;

  1. i feel more present for them when my mind is fresh.
  2. its important that my kids see that mummy is a person with interests and friends.
  3. mummy is an equal member of the family, and her fun is as important as daddy, bro/ sis etc
  4. the kids are going to grow up and leave. I don’t want to be lonely and regret that I didn’t nurture my friendships.
  5. friendships are precious; people with good friends are healthier and live longer. Watch the blue zones documentaries.
  6. I get so much out of my friendships - they offer me a different perspective other than my husband’s. Friendships are a core part of my life.

I don’t think you can force her to be where you are, or even tell her.

Snkt · 12/12/2024 17:55

When I started reading the post I thought you are just someone who doesn’t want children around but actually I don’t think you are being unreasonable.
I was one of the first of my friends to have kids and it’s been hard but I don’t bring my child everywhere. I won’t miss his childhood by going for a lunch, a movie, a girls night out, or dinner.
I have zero help and zero family other than my husband. Well I can call a babysitter but not like your friend and yet I leave my son regularly to be put to bed by his dad (lovely bonding time for them), I put him to bed and leave and yes it’s a little later but I know I’ll get uninterrupted time.

we do plenty with him with our friends during the day and he’s expected to be there when it’s a day activity but if it’s a girls thing unless it’s kids friendly he stays with my husband if he’s not out of town.

she’s making her life harder and clearly having a hard time letting go. I was like they maybe for the first year but at 2.5 it’s a bit much.

I really don’t know what my advice is here because it’s a sensitive subject and I don’t know how I would react to anyone saying can we hang out with your son?

also definitely don’t let her bring her to your 30th. What a joke!!

Housebuyingfamily · 12/12/2024 16:30

Hobnobswantshernameback · 07/12/2024 14:30

I swear we have had half a dozen virtually identical threads to this recently
Maybe use advanced search OP and get some tips

Who made you the moderator? Also, nobody cares

ScarfsAndHats · 12/12/2024 16:00

CosyLemur · 12/12/2024 07:10

My second thought is did she go through anything traumatic as a child such as SA seeing as she doesn't want Sophie's dad doing bath time, potty, bedtime etc? Is she worried something like that will happen to her daughter.

I was wondering the same re possible SA as a child

Tandora · 12/12/2024 15:14

Dear god OP she sounds insufferable 😆🤣. I suppose there’s not much you can do if she won’t meet up with you without her tot , but grin and bear it, and make it clear that for things you have organised and invited her to- like your bday- they are strictly child free. It’s up to her if she chooses to attend or not.
I wouldn’t end the friendship- it’s a phase and she may be struggling mentally. She’ll get over it soon enough and then will be irritated when others do the same to her 😂- she may never connect the dots of course. It sucks that your friendship has to change for a bit, but just be there for her in this phase and I’m sure it will be back soon enough. X

WendyA22 · 12/12/2024 15:00

harrietmg · 07/12/2024 14:01

I’ve been friends with her since primary school, over 20 years, and we’ve always been super close. We were each other’s maids of honor, and she’s one of my best friends. Since having her daughter, Sophie (2.5 years old), she insists on bringing her to every meet-up. At first, it made sense because Sophie was breastfed. Now, she says she doesn’t want to miss any time with her daughter, and lately, she frames it as “so fun” to have Sophie along now that she’s move grownup, calling her “another one of the besties” who enjoys our outings and is “part of the gang”.

The reality is less fun. Brunches involve constant interruptions: “Don’t touch that,” “Let me wipe your hands,” “Don’t shout,” “Get down before you fall,” or “Don’t hug Aunty Harriet with jammy hands.” While I understand this is normal toddler behavior, it’s hard to relax or have a proper conversation when I’m dodging sticky hugs or watching her manage Sophie the whole time.

When I’ve suggested meeting without Sophie, she always says, “I don’t want to miss her childhood because of brunch.” We’ve tried playground meet-ups, but those mostly consist of us running after Sophie to keep her safe while barely talking. I love children, but sometimes I just want time with her. For her sake too: she’s mentioned losing 90% of her friends because “if someone doesn’t want to spend time with my child, they aren’t a true friend.”

She has a nanny-housekeeper four days a week and regularly asks her mum to babysit when she and her husband go on date nights (about once a month), but otherwise, she refuses to leave Sophie. I’ve suggested meeting after Sophie’s bedtime or letting her husband put Sophie to bed, but she says she doesn’t want to miss bedtime, and by then, it’s too late to go anywhere.

I have two children of my own (a 5-year-old and a 9-month-old) so I understand the challenges of maintaining pre-motherhood friendships as a parent. But I’m also conscious that, as lovely as my children are, they’re not necessarily welcome at every social gathering. I’ve always made an effort to respect that.

Now, she’s asked if she can bring Sophie to my 30th, a 7 pm dinner at a high-end restaurant, then leave halfway through when Sophie gets tired. I love Sophie, but I don’t think it’s fair to have a toddler crying, running around, or throwing food (as toddlers do) at what’s meant to be a special evening with friends.

Are your children going?

Hocuspoc · 12/12/2024 14:18

harrietmg · 07/12/2024 14:01

I’ve been friends with her since primary school, over 20 years, and we’ve always been super close. We were each other’s maids of honor, and she’s one of my best friends. Since having her daughter, Sophie (2.5 years old), she insists on bringing her to every meet-up. At first, it made sense because Sophie was breastfed. Now, she says she doesn’t want to miss any time with her daughter, and lately, she frames it as “so fun” to have Sophie along now that she’s move grownup, calling her “another one of the besties” who enjoys our outings and is “part of the gang”.

The reality is less fun. Brunches involve constant interruptions: “Don’t touch that,” “Let me wipe your hands,” “Don’t shout,” “Get down before you fall,” or “Don’t hug Aunty Harriet with jammy hands.” While I understand this is normal toddler behavior, it’s hard to relax or have a proper conversation when I’m dodging sticky hugs or watching her manage Sophie the whole time.

When I’ve suggested meeting without Sophie, she always says, “I don’t want to miss her childhood because of brunch.” We’ve tried playground meet-ups, but those mostly consist of us running after Sophie to keep her safe while barely talking. I love children, but sometimes I just want time with her. For her sake too: she’s mentioned losing 90% of her friends because “if someone doesn’t want to spend time with my child, they aren’t a true friend.”

She has a nanny-housekeeper four days a week and regularly asks her mum to babysit when she and her husband go on date nights (about once a month), but otherwise, she refuses to leave Sophie. I’ve suggested meeting after Sophie’s bedtime or letting her husband put Sophie to bed, but she says she doesn’t want to miss bedtime, and by then, it’s too late to go anywhere.

I have two children of my own (a 5-year-old and a 9-month-old) so I understand the challenges of maintaining pre-motherhood friendships as a parent. But I’m also conscious that, as lovely as my children are, they’re not necessarily welcome at every social gathering. I’ve always made an effort to respect that.

Now, she’s asked if she can bring Sophie to my 30th, a 7 pm dinner at a high-end restaurant, then leave halfway through when Sophie gets tired. I love Sophie, but I don’t think it’s fair to have a toddler crying, running around, or throwing food (as toddlers do) at what’s meant to be a special evening with friends.

I don't think your friend is being completely honest. Checking the different instances of her outings that you mention against her decision to bring the child along or not, it seems that she is OK leaving the child with someone if her husband is also going out with her. The reasons may vary:

  • at the time when you are meeting up, her husband is available so he offers to babysit and she doesn't trust him with the baby or
  • because he has nothing to do he is guilt tripping her how she'd rather spend time with friends than with her own child - which ofcourse is not a problem for him if that other person is him and they are going out
  • if he is at home he is not keen of paying for additional help since he's already home, which brings me again to - she doesn't trust her child staying alone under his care

Do mind - I am not suggesting he is violent or physically abusive, it may just be he is one of those immature guys who don't go to a single class or tak any interest in how to take care of a child. And while he may have best intentions - he may for example feed child a shrimp before they established there is no allergy (because he thinks he knows best), yet refuses to take a first aid course....
These things happen. What is odd is why your friend - if you are so close- wouldn't talk about this and perhaps ask for advice...
Anyway - bunch of assumptions from me, but pretty plausible based on the examples you gave.