To be absolutely furious with my father?

It’s an extremely hypothetical situation.
I wouldn’t get worked up over it.

or to put it another way
cross that bridge when you come to it

which is likely to be … never.

I think its those of us in our fifties seeing .the sunlit uplands of less responsibilities that are the most horrified on ops behalf.

I think the drama overdose is coming from the posters who think that people in their 50s are practically dead, and should be making plans accordingly.

I don’t think anyone has said they’ll be dropping dead any day now. But yes, it IS worth considering that there are greater risks in becoming a parent at 53 rather than 33. It’s just a fact.

But the age of the parents isn’t the main issue here. It’s their assumptions about something that should never be an assumption. A close friend of my sister’s died of cancer before she was even 40. If her husband hasn’t got some kind of plan in place for their daughter, it’s ludicrously irresponsible, even if the chances of him getting terminal cancer too are tiny. He could be hit by a bus tomorrow - and “Oh well, I assume she could live with her auntie” is NOT good enough.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1125118/death-rate-united-kingdom-uk-by-age/

if you have a baby in your 50's, there's a significantly increasing rate of mortality in the 60's and 70's onwards. That's actual death; rates of illness and disability which may make caring for a child difficult or even impossible are obviously notably higher.

Like it, lump it or stick your head in the sand about it, these are the facts.

Anyone with any hint of either intelligence or common sense knows this. You might be alright, but the chances are increasing that you might not be. Becoming a carer losing a parent can be devastating. So to actively go out of your way to have children when both of you are in your 50's is taking a high risk and not necessarily thinking about the long term best interests of the child. As others have said, it's not like you hit 18 and never need your parents again - and at that point, they'll be mid-70's, and more or less likely to be in ill health depending on where you live in the country.

So to make deliberate extenstive efforts to have children without even actually talking about who will take care of them in the non-unlikely event of ill health before they hit 25 and then not even talking to the person you want to take care of them - that is the absolute height of selfishness. Specially when you only see said person twice a year and have no intention of leaving them much, as the OP has said.

Expecting a close family member might want to help his bereaved children in the UNLIKELY event that both their parents died, not so much.

From how the OP has described her relationship with her father, it doesn't sound like they are close family members, though.

OP doesn't think her Dad was a great parent to her, although says he is a very good parent to his other children. I don't know the full facts of the matter, but it's OP's personal feeling that her father wasn't all that great a parent to her personally.

She has also said that her father lives miles away and she only sees him a few times a year.

So they're not exactly close family members.

I think the drama overdose is coming from the posters who think that people in their 50s are practically dead, and should be making plans accordingly.

I think the father would be being unreasonable and selfish to assume OP would look after his children if he decided he and his wife were going to work in the Antarctic for a couple of years, or join a mission to Mars.

Expecting a close family member might want to help his bereaved children in the UNLIKELY event that both their parents died, not so much.

“Chilling”. Bloody hell, talk about a drama overdose.

But isn't it equally selfish of the father to mentally make his mind up that his daughter will care for his children without having the respect for her to ask what she thinks and feels about that first?

There is a chilling level of selfishness on display on this thread. I'm so lucky I have a family where I know any of us would prioritize the needs of a bereaved child.

Very much so indeed.

Sometimes (not necessarily always) being raised by a person who is doing so unwillingly can actually be harmful to the child, if they are aware or pick up on the fact that they're not genuinely wanted. The adult doesn't even need to be deliberately making the child feel unwanted; sometimes it's unconsciously shown in their behaviour.

This is a very important point - and one that should also be remembered on the depressing number of threads where women are advised to push unwilling men into parenthood.

We do put others first. Every single day.
And most of us are saying hell no to taking on more children because we are doing exactly that.

Our own children and spouses.
We are putting their wellbeing, their needs and their quality of lives above that of someone from outside the family who will then deprive us financially and emotionally thus leaving less for them.

@Lyraloo Maybe it’s you that doesn’t have the capacity to understand that some people, can an do, put others first!

It is cold up there in the pure thin atmosphere of your self righteousness? Or does all the arrogant smugness keep you warm?

There is also a point that I think should be considered.

Sometimes (not necessarily always) being raised by a person who is doing so unwillingly can actually be harmful to the child, if they are aware or pick up on the fact that they're not genuinely wanted. The adult doesn't even need to be deliberately making the child feel unwanted; sometimes it's unconsciously shown in their behaviour.

I have a friend (born in the early 1960s) whose father did not want to have children and only begrudgingly agreed to have them because his wife really wanted them. So my friend was born and then his younger brother.

From how my friend has described him, his father was pretty distant with both his sons. His Dad didn't relate to children very well and wasn't interested in them. He wasn't good at conversing with them on their level. I understand that during that period of time, it wasn't necessarily as normal as fathers to be as engaged with their children as they are nowadays, but even for that time period, his father sounds like he was unusually distant and disinterested.

I would say that both my friend and his brother are damaged, to some degree, later in their lives, because of growing up with a father that they came to realise had not really wanted them.

I think that @adriftinadenofvipers does understand that some people have the capacity to raise other people's children and are happy and willing to do so.

The fact that you took in your nephews and would have raised them entirely if necessary, is wonderful. The issue is that you seem to expect that everyone else must make the same choice as you.

Can you not respect the fact that people are different and that some people have no desire to raise other people's children? Some people don't even desire to raise children of their own, hence deciding not to have any.

You have come across as being critical of the OP for her intention to refuse to raise her father's additional children should anything happen to the parents. The OP has understandable reasons for not wishing to undertake this responsibility. If you accepted that this was a valid choice, there would be no problem. But you appear to think that OP's decision somehow makes her a lesser kinder, moral person than you are.

Thanks for your very wrong assumptions about me. I was once in a position whereby my sister could have left her three young boys as orphans. When she was ill, I did for a while take them in and would have kept them if the worst had happened. No it wasn’t easy, I went from having one nearly grown child to four children, three of them under 10. But we managed and would have continued to do so. So maybe wind your neck in before you comment about other people’s aptitude or capacity to think. Maybe it’s you that doesn’t have the capacity to understand that some people, can an do, put others first!

@Lyraloo I don't think the OP has said that she "wants nothing to do with" her half-siblings if both parents were to die. She has simply stated that she doesn't want to take them in and become their full-time parent.

Should both parents die, the OP could easily remain in the lives of the children without taking the massive step of bring them into her home and raising them.

Ooh, that's put us all in our place for sure. How very dare women not feel maternal towards every single child on the planet. What kind of unnatural harridans must we be? Quick, girls, into a circle and let's get the mea culpas going...

Well big ups to you - everyone does not feel the same. I presume that you aren't in this position, because you might not be so blithe about taking on the responsibility of three young children if it did arise!!

Everyone has their own particular set of circumstances - I mean where do you even fit three children into your house along with your own two, unless you have a huge house??

If you work FT, would you be able to continue? How would you fit 5 kids into your family-sized car? Would there be financial provision to cover the expenses? What about the emotional side of it, the practical? One child maybe, but fuck me, THREE?

I think you are extremely unrealistic. Life isn't all butterflies and rainbows and the trite, "I wouldn't hesitate", suggests to me someone not that well equipped for such a responsibility, because you don't have the capacity to think through the permutations.

I suspect this was a spur of the moment nervous joke type thing. He probably does feel some insecurity and guilt about his age, and was put on the spot by the question.

It doesn't actually matter what his intentions are, what he stipulates in his will, whether you are appointed guardian "in the event of" or even what you agree to in advance - you can refuse the responsibility of children that aren't yours, no questions asked if it came to it. What's more, being dead, your father would never know.

So to be honest, I wouldn't let this take up any more of your thoughts and I certainly wouldn't enter into a confrontation about it. There is literally nothing to be achieved. Your response was perfect tbh.

A few people have stated that they have chosen not to have children of their own. I myself have no children. Why should people who are not mothers themselves be expected to have a maternal instinct? It's not something that every woman has.

I think it's deeply unfair to expect it without so much as a discussion and in the full knowledge that the OP's father was - and is! - a pretty poor parent to her!

That's correct, but I think the OP knows she isn't obligated to actually take the children in, should such a thing be necessary. What she's angry about is that her father didn't ask her permission first before mentally designating her the care-giver in this hypothetical scenario.

If you'd like someone to potentially do something for you - especially something as onerous as raising their child - then it's surely simply a matter of respect to ask them and get their own feelings about it before effectively making your mind up about the matter.

I doubt the OP would be happy about the children going into care.

She's just not prepared to sacrifice her own needs, desires and standard of living to care for children that aren't her own. As she has stated that she intentionally had children at a relatively young age to avoid having dependents when she is older, this is something she has long felt and made plans/choices around.

The OP's father and his wife could nominate friends of his that live near them and actually see their children regularly and would be willing to be guardians instead of dumping his poor children on the OP when they will hardly know her. Being a guardian is a years long commitment, it isn't something you just assume will be taken on by anyone, even if they are a step-sibling or other close relation. An assumption like that is totally irresponsible.

My SIL and her husband never wanted DC so of course DH and I wouldn't name them as guardians for our DC, it would be unfair to everyone. Instead we named friends who lived near us, had a similar parenting style, and, most importantly, were willing to take on the responsibility.