It's who you know, not what you know

Sorry that you have experienced that.

Personally, I've experienced and seen other things.

I think "class" definitely affects if you get a job.

People in the " upper middle class" only want to hang around other "upper middle class", as it makes them feel more elite.

Absolutely it happens. It's not always about the best candidate. It's who has the best connections.

There are a lot of nepotism babies too.

In my last workplace, we had an absolutely useless manager. He was 15 years younger than the rest of them.

Someone pulled me aside and said "don't say anything negative about him to anyone. He's a grandson of someone very high up in the company".

This was a very large financial services company.

I'd not say that "working class" background stopped you getting the job, I think bad timing did if anything. You'll always be over looked over a friend favour regardless of class or education. I say this as someone who was work privileged. I got my first job alone, min wage etc but at some point my family said I need to go into my field of study and they sorted it out.

I also know many people who got places through hard work, but if they had applied for my job my family got me they would definitely not have been chosen, even with more experience. God, I might regret writing this comment on mumsnet 😂 don't come for me please.

I do think you can make your own networks - my family only sorted my job because of their networking which they worked hard for!
Also I think many jobs in life are like this, or at least were in the past. If I recall my primary school lunch ladies were parents or grandparents of children too - must have got a good word in!

I think it depends what are you work in - agree with the PP who said "hard" rather than "soft" subjects tend to be better. I work in pharma R&D as a chemist, and I've never felt that I suffered from being from a WC backgound - there are a lot of WC or sort of solid MC scientists, I dont stick out. DH is a patent attorney and he reckoned he suffered from not being in the old boys' network in the UK, but did fine where we now are in Switzerland. I would say in Germany/Switzerland there is much less of class system generally and certainly moving to a place with a different language means that people can't immediately tell your social class from your accent which helps a bit with out and out prejudice but as you said it's more about networking. In my industry the networking starts more towards the end of degree and start of PhD - nowadays there are a lot of degree placements and (paid) internships, temporary placements and so on, and the game is to meet and make friends with as many people as possible, be helpful, get a reputation for being good - and then drop a name or two when you get to interview. If you know someone (or you know someone who knows someone) in the organisation, hit them up with a quick email asking if there's anything they would suggest you research for the interview, that sort of thing. But I think the main thing is to find something where there is a lot of demand for people, and not a lot of supply - medical jobs are good for that because there's a limit on the number of students, things like law the bottleneck is in getting a training placement so it can be a bit harder and more of a risk as you have to complete the degree before you ever get taken on. My area I think is OK because the posh kids are not so fussed about working in a chemical plant in hard har and steelies all day, even if you do get a nice (ish) office as well!

Yep, this country is pretty much still run on nepotism, connections, and generational wealth.

Great feedback but overlooked for 'friends of a friends' child at every interview opportunity. Applying for advertised roles where they always already had someone in mind, usually an old school friend etc.

YANBU, but I'm curious as to how you know this ^^ ?

Did you always stay in contact with the interviewers/successful applicants?

I believe it is, yes, on every level.
Most of my jobs I've got because I've had an 'in' - either a friend working there has tipped me off (call the manager, they're looking to hire and haven't advertised yet) or I've had an interview, told a current colleague and they say they know the hiring manager so have put in a word. We are not talking a high-stakes career here by any means btw! Random admin/comms type jobs in the main.
Same for my DCs and their p/t jobs as students. DS got his job as his friend's sister worked in the same place and he was round at his and mentioned it. DS then got DD a job there and DD went on to get another job in a similar place because they knew her previous manager.
Dh has just helped his relative with an 'in' at a a firm where his friend works as well. We don't know if he's got the job yet, only at CV stage, but it was for an opening that hadn't yet been advertised.
We don't mix in high circles, my DCs went to a state school, etc but DH knows a lot of different types of people through his work and I suppose I have quite a few contacts now with kids having been through school and working in a variety of places over the years with a friendly demeanour and good attitude!

Completely agree. You are YANBU.
Its like snakes and ladders, only with a working class background there are far fewer ladders.

One job I had at a prestigious organisation, someone asked me casually 'who I knew' to get the job.
I was younger at the time and just said, I just applied and got it. They quickly moved on realising I did get it.

I was at a Baby Naming ceremony and also present was a 20 year old young man who had dropped out of uni. He was introduced to a friend of the family who worked in finance in Hong Kong. I watched amazed as the HK finance guy offered the young man a job in Hong Kong in his company! They'd barely met. He didn't ask him anything about his course or what he wanted to do. He just said, I'm in the UK for a couple weeks. Back in HK next month. Here's my card. Call me on this date, make sure your passport is current and we can get you started by the end of next month.

I also dropped out and spent years temping in crappy admin jobs before I went back and got my degree.

It really is the circles you move in.

100%. I'm from the most working class of backgrounds, but have put a great deal of effort into getting the kids into super selective schools for this exact reason. Life is undoubtedly easier when you mix with more successful people!

I'm not saying it's right. But 'twas ever thus.

I don't know - I think you can make your own networks.

Went to a big northern uni with lots of bright and energetic state educated people and followed them to London where people got internships (and jobs to pay for them), networked, were personable and talented. They're all now on national papers/middle managment media types and none got a job via their parents. Find the talented people and stick by them!

YANBU and I say that as someone who successfully went over the top and made it to the other side.

Grew up on tax credits in a working class household, went to a polytechnic (2nd in my family to go to uni, my big sister was first) and now have a relatively senior civil servant role after working my way up from the bottom.

I still wouldn’t send my kids to private school for a whole host of reasons. I don’t want to perpetuate the cycle that disadvantages kids like me, I want them to share my values of hard work and meritocracy, we could afford the fees but not lifestyle so they may end up feeling out of place, and there’s no guarantees they’ll maximise on the opportunities we bought them. My boss is old money so had the finest education (and opportunities) money can buy and I’m confident I’ll be at his level before I’m his age!

My husband and I are passionate about state schooling for future children but part of me thinks about the opportunities they might get through private education and making 'the right' connections

Just going to private school isn't enough, you still have to be in the 'right' group. I've witnessed plenty of this. And even if private schools were abolished tomorrow, those groups of people would still stick together and provide each other with opportunities through their network. Always makes me wry smile when advocates for abolishing private school say it would give everyone more equal opportunities, of course it wouldn't.

You are right though, there's always a bit of who you know. My own DDs have benefitted from this themselves, if I'm being totally honest. However, I wouldn't say in their case it was 'not what they know' because neither of them would have got the opportunity had they not been up to the job. And they didn't take the positions away from someone else, as the positions didn't exist until they asked. Do I feel guilty? Hmmm, I sometimes feel like it's unfair that not everyone has the same opportunities but, as I said, I am confident that they are also where they are on their own merit - the door was opened though, that's true. They also went to state schools, and me and DH were very firmly working class, he grew up in foster care and I grew up in extreme poverty, so I guess no, I don't feel too bad about my DDs having opportunities now. And in the case of one (currently doing a placement year from Uni in an organisation that has never done this before), it has gone so well that they have asked her to set up a program going forward for other young people to access the organisation so something good will come out of that, not just her own benefit.

You are right OP, it's called the Old Boy Network !!!!

Of course. what industry are you in? I always knew to stick to careers where you need “hard” not “soft” subjects because i wouldn’t be able to compete. But also I’m an immigrant so instinctively knew i had to worker harder both academically and to fit in than everyone else, so in a way i never felt “let down”. However learning the extent to HOW much difference it makes as i get older is indeed a little depressing. But that’s how the world works

@Showerflowers Having the same experience and I am finding it profoundly saddening.

Hard work for many many years in difficult circumstances seem to stand no chance against money and contacts.

I feel I have lied to my child when I told them that hard work would give them opportunities.

In my opinion, schools are at fault for false advertising. They are at it with my kids. Qualifications aren't everything, and it piles pressure on the academic ones that if they fail, it's the end of the world. In reality, in my class cohort, I turned out probably the most educated but least successful in their career. Personal characteristics go a long, long way. How gregarious you are. How much you enjoy working with others. How skilled you are as a people person. These are massively underrated. I see a Y9 boy (friend of DS). Although academically not flying, he's a completely natural leader. He'll go far.

Additionally there is the people you know and personal networks. Again, massively underrated until you enter the world of work. To be honest (I'm wc background), I've come around to this. We all operate on trust. When we have a personal recommendation whether in home life (services for example) or professional life, it carries much weight. We trust personal recommendations.

I'm seeing this right now happen to my dd. She's worked so bloody hard but she hits brick walls continuously while watching her friends who have come from upper class family just waltz into training courses, jobs etc because they have family or friends with connections.

Dd applied for something last year. The interview process was quite daunting. She prepared hard. She had all the relevant experience and qualifications. A young man she knew from uni walked into the waiting room for next phase of the process, sat next to her to catch up. He told her to go home as they were wasting her time, his dad works for the firm and the placement is his. She still stayed but yes he got the placement. She's found the whole process quite soul destroying tbh. She's a stubborn girl though so she won't give up easily but I feel for her

Should add DS went to a shit state school, really bad on the league tables. He got all A grades at A level and top GCSE grades. He then got a degree apprenticeship. Already on 32k PA, no tuition fees and a guaranteed job. Well over a thousand applicants applied for just a few places. gruelling multi interview and test procedures for a place.

DH did want to send DS to private school and we could have afforded it plus MIL offers to chip in. I didn’t want to and some debate ensued. Without any advantage in life DH and I met as junior staff in the same workplace. My reasoning was I had met too many arrogant ex public schoolboys.

We dont have the same class issues in Ireland but I studied law and qualified as a barrister. I had no connections in the legal world and despite doing much better in the exams than others, I struggled for years as I had no connections to open up doors. Others in my class had parents who were solicitors, barristers and judges and they all got many more opportunities.
However I worked hard and built up a good reputation. I now have a very good role in-house. My DS wants to do law and I know he will have it easier as I have a lot of connections now that I can use to assist him, so he will have more opportunity early on.
I think law is one of those areas that even is you have connections you have to have ability, but it does help to make your early career easier.

If people have contacts it can get a foot in the door, I know it’s true. Lots of my students would go off and do unpaid internships. I had one who had a summer working at the UN because her Auntie worked there.

DH is privately educated and I am not. DH got DS, one of DS mate and DS GF great work experience. Working in the HQ of a global firm and working in a University Lab. I put forward DS GF CV to my mate and she got her first job fresh out of University at my friends firm. I met my mate in the school playground of a state primary school at school drop off.

So yes it’s who you know but just as importantly how personable you and your children are. All those school playground posts on MN of how people can’t connect with other Mums in the playground.

Plus unless you can easily afford the fees then do you want your kid to be the kid who has a very different life to the rest? it can make some strive and it can give others a chip on their shoulder if they are the poor kid.

As a family we are seen as very personable and are all good communicators, DS exceptionally so. Both DS and I are chameleon like depending on the situation. That’s been the most useful thing through my life.