It's who you know, not what you know

I'm struggling to understand here. You didn't get a few graduate jobs, so you changed industry and did get a job. What has prevented you from making a career in that industry? Or if you have been successful as you claim, why do you not see you are proving the opposite of your point?

Have you ever looked to move back to the first industry now you have some work experience for your application? It's only really arts, politics and charities who expect free internships outside school holidays and formal education, so this is very specific to the age and industry you were looking at. Most of us in other industries just went to work and worked our way up, much as you did.

@mirrormirror5 ah, glad it was helpful. 🙂 Could you find a mentor in your preferred industry before trying again?

Use LinkedIn, friends, family, anyone who might be able to help?

At an IT company i worked at the CEO had a friend and we had his daughter dumped on us, she didnt have a clue what she was doing but was given a role above her capabilities and struggled, but instead of managing her out which would have happened to anyone else she was promoted to another department.

It really leaves a nasty taste in your mouth when people have worked hard or studied to get a career but are blocked because Daddy knows the CEO.

Oddly enough, in academia, people find jobs are less skewed by nepotism than in countries on the Continent.

Yup

One of the reasons I'm glad we live abroad, where things are slightly less skewed

I am sorry this happened. Was it all down to (unfair) nepotism do you think, or perhaps also to skills which are ( also unfairly) easier to acquire within a certain background and education, such as confident relaxed, clear speaking while looking someone in the eye; being polite but reasonably assertive; fluent, well punctuated letter writing style; having an idea of what clothes to wear to fit with people around?

For your future children some of the speaking skills and apparent confidence can come from a school with smaller classes, time for discussions, debating societies, speech and drama, extended studies around all the subjects, confidence from interacting more with staff and across different clubs and groups.

I think The Sutton Trust did a study about how even very well educated, high achieving WC did not find the same jobs as their MC counterparts but I heard that on the radio about five years ago and cannot find it.

This is about social mobility in the creative arts.
https://www.suttontrust.com/our-research/a-class-act/
From acting in an award-winning film to producing a number one album, getting to the top of the creative industries is a dream for many young people. But access to such careers, both behind the scenes and in front of an audience, is currently far from equal. For young people from lower socio-economic backgrounds in particular, there are major barriers.

What a shame you could not follow your passion, even though you did so well and you also saved up to do those internshios which must be one of the worst hurdles of all for anyone without friends or family in London, or without lots of money for living costs. If I were a dictator I’d set up hostels and train fares especially for young people from outside to be able to do them, or auditions. Mentoring schemes would be great too - set up nepotism so to speak from sixth form age.

“I read somewhere that there are only 3 interview questions and all the others are permutations of these: 1. Can you do the job? 2. Do you want to do the job and 3. Do we like you and can we work with you? That third one is pretty big.”

Agree with @TheSecondMrsCampbellBlack very strongly here. As a working class person who has done very well in political / social science organisations my biggest asset has been being very personable.

Also having good ideas, energy and leadership skills. But it’s often personality that gets people’s interest and persuades them to give someone a chance.

When hiring, a strong indicator of success is personality.

Especially if the job requires teamwork and collaboration. You can learn skills, acquire knowledge and experience if you’re intelligent and able but you can’t really change your personality once it’s set in.

People from working class backgrounds arguably have to demonstrate more strongly positive personality attributes to compensate for lack of old boy network.

Lot of it is if your face fits . I've seen people promoted on the basis of their likeability not their actual ability. If people like you they will make excuses for you and open doors for you . Of course it's also who you know too .

Having said all that, my ds has a job in a coveted industry and I introduced him via a friend, which is how he got it.

Ah, I'm really sorry you're not doing what you want to do, that doesn't sound fair.

I was going to say no, it's what you know, not who you know, but then I thought back to my early career and actually, sometimes it WAS about who I knew. Big "but" though, I knew them from my experience of work, not from school or university, I didn't go to private school or to Oxford.

The people who thought of me for jobs did so because I proved myself and worked hard and made it clear I wanted opportunities. As someone else said, I was also personable (not so much now, bit old and grumpy these days tbh!) and that was one of the most useful things and always has been in my career.

I read somewhere that there are only 3 interview questions and all the others are permutations of these: 1. Can you do the job? 2. Do you want to do the job and 3. Do we like you and can we work with you? That third one is pretty big.

I also appreciate that I'm definitely middle class, sound quite posh and was pretty when younger, so I definitely got what my kids call "pretty privilege" as well as class privilege. But I got no help from my parents, their friends or from ex university or school friends and I've had a pretty successful career.

Is the field you wanted to be in really niche? Is there a way of changing plan now and breaking into it? I worked with someone who was an accountant and in her 30s she retrained, became an art curator and now works at senior roles in art galleries, it was a complete U turn and worked for her.

So I think in answer to the question in your thread title is "sometimes it's who you know, sometimes it isn't". Good luck.

That's what you pay for at private school. It's not superior education, it's the networking.

Not true for most private schools unless you're talking about somewhere like Eton or Harrow. Most parents are just paying for things like smaller class sizes and better facilities for their children, not networking opportunities.

Both my parents were very working class second gen children and did well academically and then professionally. But that was a profession, think medicine, not something like acting or fashion where connections are pretty essential.

Mine was a Josh

I’m well aware you can’t just decide to be a dr or solicitor, there’s no need to be facetious.

You can however do work experience with family friends to strengthen your UCAS application and, for solicitors at least, friends can open the doors needed to get a position or promotion in the industry. That’s before we unpack family funding for the extended period of study needed or learning professional skills from parents.

Being handed a network, rather than having to build it yourself, gives people a head start. The kids building a network have to spend time and effort doing that whilst their peers, like you, are already climbing the ladder through their connections.

One day a "work experience" lad joins us. He's wearing a suit and tie and looks remarkably out of place. Speaks very well, understands Latin but is generally a bit dim and not all that switched on.

You are literally describing ‘Tim nice but dim’ 😂

A lot depends on what career you want to
go into.

There are some careers where very few people have the intellectual capacity and qualifications to do the job. University maths researcher, big pharma research (you need a doctorate in chemistry), medicine in general etc.

The kind of jobs where the outcomes depend on the skills and knowledge of the person and this really can't be replaced by charm and interpersonal skills.

These jobs have much less class bias than other jobs.

No you're dead right.
I used to be also be so niave and optimistic. My career tells the complete story and its not a good one.

I actually saw this play out in real time at public sector organisation, to work for it we all had background checks for a job paying not very much.

One day a "work experience" lad joins us. He's wearing a suit and tie and looks remarkably out of place. Speaks very well, understands Latin but is generally a bit dim and not all that switched on.

Over the course of a few weeks I find out he's the son of the Chief Execs PA (hence why he was allowed access without screening and vetting). One day in the canteen, in his suit and tie I watch one of the Directors strike up a very friendly jovial conversation with him. I've been working there for some time and not once has this man said a word to me, all of a sudden he's laughing with the work experience lad.

I overhear their conversation and they are discussing school. Turns out nice but dim work experience boy and Director both went to Harrow. The tie the lad was wearing was the school tie.

I left not long after but I since found out that work experience lad got an 'entry level' job as department head shortly after finishing his studies at the organisation.

That's what you pay for at private school. It's not superior education, it's the networking.

You can't be in a role without the qualification!!! I couldn't get a role as a Dr in a specific hospital because I know the director 😂 I can't play dress up solicitor! That's insane.

You can have friends in the right places once you network or get your foot in, regardless of class. You can also network easily in London.

This is true. But we build our own networks of bright and well achieving working / middle class people. As a hiring manager, it’s the CVs of people who went to state school and didn’t benefit from upper class networks who catch my eye and go to the top of the pile.

Also agree that teaching children to be gregarious, articulate, interesting in conversation, able to tell a good story (which shows their intellect) in an engaging manner, goes a long way in prising open these largely closed career doors.

Also check out https://www.93percent.club/

The fact you’ll always be overlooked for a friend favour is why class matters. Without friends in the right places, people don’t have any favours to call in and it’s likely working class people have a network that’s mainly in working class roles.

Fine if you want to be a tradesperson or dinner lady but much less useful if you fancy being a solicitor or doctor.