Badly behaved child at funeral

Yea, was going to ask what culture thinks cartwheels and showing off is appropriate at a funeral?

Since it was your niece I'd have given your brother 5 mins to act and then taken her out myself.

If no one is doing anything then you're all to blame.

Your DB and SIL should be utterly ashamed of themselves but I suspect they don’t have enough insight to feel ashamed. Abysmal parenting and so disrespectful to your grandfather and the mourners.

But I appreciate it's a different country, so the culture might be a bit different. Maybe death is not considered all doom and gloom, and kids are kids.

Cartwheels at the front of the church during the ceremony? What culture is that?

I'm sorry for your loss. I don't think the child could have been much more disrespectful and the parents were outrageous for not controlling her or taking her out immediately. They must know that their child's behaviour is appalling and should not have taken her to the funeral.

OP, I feel sorry for the loss of your GrandParent. He was a great age,the little girl does seem to be a show off. I do hope it didn't spoil things too badly. 102 is an amazing age to live to. What memories you and your family must have with him. I wish you all the best at this sad time.

I am not sure. Would your Grandad have enjoyed watching twirling about? For me 102 is to be celebrated. Do funerals have to be so very solemn?

It wouldn't bother me. A 5-year old has very limited idea of what a funeral or death means. In the country where I come from all the children are taken to funerals regardless - it is normal for all the people regardless of age, maybe except of babies, to take part in all rites of passage. The body is usually displayed in a mortuary where everybody can bid farewell. My dad died last year and all my children, nephews and cousin's children attended. Kids were told not to approach the body, but not everybody listened, though my 3-yo behaved well and stayed on his chair. Then there was a mass and we had to leave the church, cause it was too much for him (he was extremely bored). After that there was a wake with ca. 40 people in a restaurant, lots of food, drink and the playground - kids ate and then went out to play. There were also some black and white baloons hanging on the wall and they grabbed them and played with them. It didn't seem to bother anyone, so I guess everybody considered it normal. But I appreciate it's a different country, so the culture might be a bit different. Maybe death is not considered all doom and gloom, and kids are kids.

Sorry for your loss OP. Your granddad lived through some amazing history and I’m not surprised you’re feeling his loss so deeply.

However, calling your niece a brat and her brother an Angel is a tad unfair.

Her poor behaviour is directly down to lax parenting at that age (unless SEN) and assuming you normally get on well with your brother I think you should have words with him about his lack of intervention. Point out that you and others were upset by her inappropriate behaviour in the church and felt it very disrespectful at such a solemn occasion.

I feel sorry for your niece. She’s only 5 and if she’s never been given firm boundaries by her parents, she’s going to suffer the consequences when she’s older and that would be a shame.

Absolutely. The death of anyone loved is sad, it doesn't matter that they had a full life. That will help with the grief, but it's still sad.

She is a product of lazy parenting.
At 5 she absolutely should be able to behave or simply be walked out if she needed a break.

Her parents are 100% to blame.
She knows no better.

Blame the parents, never the child in these situations.
Your useless brother and SIL are to blame.

Forget about it, you can't change people like that, you simply avoid them.

Sorry for your loss, he must have led an amazing life at 102 and lucky to have seen so many great grandchildren.

I am on the fence with this one. the funeral was likely a celebration of life. I dont think its fair to leave a child at home if both parents wanted to attend. its unfair of you to refer to her as a brat. kids that age can be difficult. I have an almost 4yo and she has so much energy she runs around and gets excited by new places. Am i a bad parent for not telling her to keep still? I dont want to hold her down and dont want to shout as thats so damaging to a young child. removing her wouldnt have been easy either. I have been to weddings where I had had to remove her from the ceremony and wait outside. she cried, she screamed. its hard on the parents too. i'm not sure how different a 3.5 yo is from a 5 yo. i havent got there yet.

if the tone of the funeral was sad and subdued than yes maybe they should have just taken her outside and dealt with a tantrum or parent guilt. but if not, if spirits were high and you were in a celebratory mood, i dont think its an obvious point for the parents to have taken. sometimes when kids are so energetic a lot of it is like white noise. you dont even realise that its disturbing others. I suppose some of this is a lesson for me really - in future i should look around to see if anyone is particularly horrified by my kid's actions.

and no one (with a heart) would judge a small child's behaviour at their parent's/sibling's funeral

Give over. It’s a 5yo, not a 3yo. This is a school age child. One that is expected to sit appropriately through school events/assemblies etc. So, they will do this at school but not with their parents, very simply because they know their parents let them take the piss. Similarly with the refusing to get dressed. They need to get dressed to get to school on time but did this on this occasion as they knew their parents would let them take the piss, and they did. The child is a brat and the parents are enablers.

A 102 year old's funeral isn't really a sad occasion, it's quite happy that a person lived that long and has lots of family there to celebrate their life.

Not getting at you as I've seen several people say this (calling it "a jolly" was probably a bit much).

Yes 102 is a long, full life and no-one would say it's a tragedy like the loss of a much younger person.
However, people have still lost their loved one, they are still bereaved, and will still miss and mourn them.

Can you recognise that it's likely many people at the funeral WOULD be bothered. I imagine there were quite a few elderly relatives who hopefully love children but also want to have some time in quiet thought.

I think you will be in the minority thinking it's not an issue to have children running around and playing in a place of worship.

Being 5 means she'll be in school and will be expected to sit for a similar amount of time in assembly so it's all down the the parents allowing it, extremely disrespectful for them to not even try to get her to sit down. I'd be really annoyed about it.

It's not the kid's fault. At five she has no understanding of what a funeral is for or what death really is. Don't get me started on her parents, though. They have no excuses.....Who wants to see that shit at a funeral? Why they didn't pick her up and take her outside I don't know.... Someone needs to tell them that she's not as cute as they seem to believe.

It must be hard losing your grandad. 102! He must’ve lived a life.

I’ve been to many funerals. Too many for people who’ve died tragically young. The most heart-warming, healing ones have had lots of children at them. They’ve been celebrations of life and joyous affairs, despite the pain and tears. So, IMHO it doesn’t matter if children are playing at a funeral. All the people whose funerals I’ve attended would have loved that!

But, funerals are mainly for the close loved ones to help with their grief. If they want the funeral to be quiet and calm, that should be respected. Some children really struggle to sit still. They can pick up on lots of sadness and it makes them stressed. So, I agree in such cases, it’s respectful to the closest loved ones to take your children outside to let off steam for a bit and explain that people want to be quiet and they should be respectful of that. They have to understand it in other contexts, like school lessons and assemblies.

I'm very sorry for your loss and I'm sorry that the funeral didn't go the way you had anticipated.

I disagree strongly that children shouldn't be at funerals. They can be an important rite of passage and children should be included if possible. I also disagree that funerals absolutely have to be sombre. Quite often they can be a celebration of a life well lived (and dying at age 102 leaving behind a large and loving family seems like a life very well lived). My own mums funeral was absolutely a celebration - she was finally free from pain and reunited with her much loved husband after decades of widowhood.

People are saying it was disrespectful to the mourners seem to forget that the parent of this child was, like the OP, a mourner too. Perhaps it would have been better to have removed her but maybe in his grief he wasn't thinking clearly. Perhaps he knew that if he removed her she would have kicked up holy hell and been even more of a distraction.

A five year old I'd too old to be thinking that that is OK at a funeral. My daughter just turned 6 and even she would not do this.. and she has ASD. When she was 4 she went to my dads funeral and danced to the song he had chosen as the lowered the coffin. As it was her grandad who she was close to and I knew he wouldn't have minded I let that go. For the rest of the service she was quiet and well behaved. She took it very seriously.
I don't think it dents your child's self esteem to be told there are some events that aren't about them and where it is inappropriate to show off their skills.

Hopefully she DOES read it and smartens up her parenting skills.
I know a vicar very well, and she would have paused proceedings for this sort of disrespect behavior, not allowed some badly raised brat use her church as a theme park.

This would have given me the rage. OP, what did you do?

This wouldn’t bother me in the slightest. Different, perhaps, if it was an untimely death, and people were shocked and grieving, but for the death of someone who had a long life and died at 102, where it’s a celebration of a life, I don’t think there’s any issue with kids running around and playing.

Children should attend funerals. They shouldn't dance around.

I'm all for children playing and, for very very young kids, making noise in church including during a funeral - after all they are living breathing buildings - but not in such a way that it detracts from the solemnity of the service or at the front.

Also once she refused to get dressed if I was your brother, I would have said I'm leaving now with son and you will have to stay at home with her.
But she's obviously in charge of that household.