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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think someone should have got Mary a chair and some toast?

89 replies

divineinspirations · 06/12/2024 03:13

Watching my first school nativity I couldn't believe poor Mary had to stand up the whole time and be polite to all the shepherds and wise men that kept turning up.
If there was no room for a bed surely someone could have got her a chair at least? And there must be a Judaean equivalent of postnatal tea and toast?

OP posts:
Monty27 · 07/12/2024 04:27

Brilliant funny times at that age. Lovely memories 😍

ForcedPronounsIsBullying · 07/12/2024 03:02

89redballoons · 06/12/2024 06:08

It wasn't until I was heavily pregnant in December that I realised just how uncomfortable it must have been for Mary to ride to Bethlehem from Nazareth on a donkey. On a dusty road etc. So bumpy! Ouch ouch ouch.

Probably helped speed things up a little though

beenwhereyouare · 06/12/2024 23:02

Isatis · 06/12/2024 07:06

I think Mary took it really well when the angel reacted to the annoying glittery tinsel round its neck by casting off its white gown. It may not be in the Bible, but we know it happened because it was in our school's nativity play.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

BookGoblin · 06/12/2024 19:54

The nativity is a deeply misogynistic story in which a young girl is forced to have a baby and forced by other men to give birth in a stable and then visited by other pointless men.

It sets the narrative for the patriarchal thrust of Christianity and its role in controlling women.

So no, that poor woman is not getting a cuppa.

Toddlerteaplease · 06/12/2024 18:32

The three kings could have brought something a bit more useful for a baby!

MargaretThursday · 06/12/2024 18:24

Well it took 2 years for the Kings to get there, so I'd imagine she sat down in that time. They were also in a house rather than the stable.

I was imagining the conversation between one of the Kings (Casper) and his page as I drove home. It went something along the lines of:

Page: Are we nearly there yet?
Casper: I think so... at least...
Page: You said that when we went to Herod's palace. And you were wrong. Why should I believe anything you say?
Casper: This time... look there's Melchior... and Balthazar. We can't all three be wrong, surely?
Page: Weren't they at Herod's palace too? I think you're getting old. You're forgetting everything. I'm even having to carry your present because you nearly forgot it at the palace.
Casper: No, I'm sure we're right this time. It's been a nice walk anyway hasn't it?
Page: A nice walk? We've been walking for two years. Do you remember what you said? A nice quick stroll down to see the new King and come home again. I didn't sign up for this. I didn't even want to do my DofE because of the walking, but Mum persuaded me to do this for volunteering
Casper: Never mind. We're here now. And when we've seen the King we can go home.
Page: Great... hang on. Go home! Do you realise it's going to take two years to walk home again. It's so unfair. Can't we get an uber camel this time?

candlerhyme · 06/12/2024 18:20

SarahAndQuack · 06/12/2024 07:29

I research medieval childbirth (as you do), and medieval writers spent a ton of time imagining how Mary's labour went. There is a really adorable book that addresses the bumpy ride to Bethlehem, and very sweetly assures us that 'the Lord Jesus was not chargeaunt to his mother' (ie., he didn't weigh on her; the pregnancy wasn't a burden). Isn't that cute?

There's also a bit of theology that pain in childbirth comes from Eve's sin, and Mary (being sinless) could open her womb as easily and voluntarily as she might spread her fingers - so it wouldn't be painful.

(I love this extremely random stuff.)

That's fascinating!

greengreenenvy · 06/12/2024 18:08

@divineinspirations

@Stopsnowing Stopsnowing · Today 05:08
“How silently how silently the wondrous gift is given” so an easy labour.
Oh wow, I’ve sung that so many times without ever relating it to childbirth!

It doesn't relate to the labour. It relates to the blessing of God entering your heart and the silent coming of Christ into your meek soul! This is the full context:

How silently, how silently,
the wondrous gift is giv'n!
So God imparts to human hearts
the blessings of His heav'n.
No ear may hear His coming,
but in this world of sin,
where meek souls will receive Him still,
the dear Christ enters in.

Garlicwest · 06/12/2024 17:39

NewGreenDuck · 06/12/2024 06:49

According to early Christians, Mary was still virgo intacta after the birth. So it was clearly pain-free.

🤣🤣🤣 Oh, that's taking the whole miracle thing a LITTLE too far!

Stickthatupyourdojo · 06/12/2024 09:52

She did say frankincense was fine but could you please keep the gold and myrr at your house for when baby Jesus visits as the stable is packed to the gunnels already.

CyranoDeBergerQuack · 06/12/2024 09:40

KimberleyClark · 06/12/2024 09:36

I believe Catholic doctrine is just this - that Mary did not suffer labour pains and there was no mess, that he just slipped out like a ray of light.

Don't all babies come out like that/
😂

KimberleyClark · 06/12/2024 09:36

Garlicwest · 06/12/2024 03:47

I've always (well, rarely and briefly) hoped the Holey Bab came out as easily as he went in 😂 No huffing, puffing, sweating or other messy fluids, just a gentle unworldly breath. And magical crowns of light for all concerned.

I believe Catholic doctrine is just this - that Mary did not suffer labour pains and there was no mess, that he just slipped out like a ray of light.

JaneandtheLaundry · 06/12/2024 09:34

JudgeJ · 06/12/2024 09:14

You obviously didn't have a bumpy ride on a donkey to help it out! When I was younger if a woman was overdue there was as twisty, bumpy, steep road that was recommended for a few drives up and down, I recall one man offering to take his wife on his motorbike!

I suppose before there were birthing balls or motorbikes, a bumpy donkey ride was probably just the thing to get it all going. 🤣

UpUpUpU · 06/12/2024 09:32

What did they do with the placenta? Offer it back as a gift to the 3 wise men?

Ridunclosity · 06/12/2024 09:31

110APiccadilly · 06/12/2024 06:56

I have heard that they were probably staying with extended family. And that the "stable" would have still been part of the living quarters of the family home. How reliable each of these is I don't know, I'm not an expert in living conditions in first century Israel. But if that's correct, then presumably there would have been family members on hand to help look after Mary - so hopefully she got whatever the equivalent of tea and toast was.

First century Israel? 🤔

GetItInYerBag · 06/12/2024 09:29

89redballoons · 06/12/2024 06:08

It wasn't until I was heavily pregnant in December that I realised just how uncomfortable it must have been for Mary to ride to Bethlehem from Nazareth on a donkey. On a dusty road etc. So bumpy! Ouch ouch ouch.

Perhaps the bumps helped to kick-start Mary's labour.
At least Joseph's parents didn't turn up along with the shepherds and kings, otherwise Mary would've been straight on MN with 'AIBU to expect ILs to leave us alone post-birth? The baby isn't even DH's child!'

Allthehorsesintheworld · 06/12/2024 09:26

And there’s always the old joke, it should have been 3 wise women. They’d have brought sensible gifts and a casserole, changed Mary’s bedsheets and swept the stable floor before leaving.

CaptainMyCaptain · 06/12/2024 09:25

Apologies for the bodily fluids stories but it's a daily fact of life in Early Years.

CaptainMyCaptain · 06/12/2024 09:25

Another year, while lining up to go in the Hall, one of the angels vomited all over the two in front. There was a bit of a delay while the poorly one's Mum was found in the audience and some sort of angel costumes were hastily cobbled together for the other two.

CaptainMyCaptain · 06/12/2024 09:22

One year Reception Mary wet herself but with admirable stage presence didn't give any indication this was happening and it was only discovered later. Very embarrassing for the poor child.

x2boys · 06/12/2024 09:19

Latenightreader · 06/12/2024 09:15

At my daughter’s nursery nativity a couple of years ago Baby Jesus got stuck under Mary’s jumper and one of the TAs had to crawl on and fish him out. The teacher who narrated the story commented that they’d called in the midwife and it was a breech birth. One of my favourite memories from her nursery days.

Got to love a a nativity preformed by nursery/ reception children i remember " Joseph" yawning and picking his nose 🤣

Latenightreader · 06/12/2024 09:15

ladycarlotta · 06/12/2024 07:28

Until the late medieval period, there was usually a midwife in the nativity scene. Plumping the pillows or getting Mary a drink or looking after the baby so she could have a rest. She's not mentioned in the Bible but I appreciate that in mediaeval thought, Mary must have needed someone knowledgeable and caring to help her.

Very annoyed we don't include her any more.

At my daughter’s nursery nativity a couple of years ago Baby Jesus got stuck under Mary’s jumper and one of the TAs had to crawl on and fish him out. The teacher who narrated the story commented that they’d called in the midwife and it was a breech birth. One of my favourite memories from her nursery days.

JudgeJ · 06/12/2024 09:14

divineinspirations · 06/12/2024 07:45

I am starting to become concerned that I may have sinned beyond redemption and/or possibly given birth to Satan’s child, based on my significantly less than comfortable pregnancy and childbirth experience. So I guess the Christmas story is still in action saving our souls.

You obviously didn't have a bumpy ride on a donkey to help it out! When I was younger if a woman was overdue there was as twisty, bumpy, steep road that was recommended for a few drives up and down, I recall one man offering to take his wife on his motorbike!

CaptainMyCaptain · 06/12/2024 09:11

Some years ago (more than 10 because I've been retired that long) there was, apparently, a TV programme before Christmas describing how childbirth would have been dealt with in Biblical times. I didn't see it but a girl in KS1 did and started telling everyone about it in Assembly. She had just described a rope to hold on to and something to bite on when I managed to move things on.

JudgeJ · 06/12/2024 09:10

stepmad · 06/12/2024 06:48

Just how wise were the the three wise men as they went to the wrong place to begin with and look at the trouble that caused

They didn't arrive until a couple of weeks later, around Jan 6th, so she had her little family bubble, very MN!

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