Do you teach your child to hit back?

No, this attitude is what happens when your child is at the end of their tether because school (and perpetrator parents) are not able to stop the bullying.

School believed her bully fancied her and was just misguided in his attention seeking. I would argue that by not putting a stop to this behaviour, this boy could grow up to believe he can be a pest to women to try to woo them. That a girl/women saying no means nothing if he likes someone (and my daughter said no a lot). Hopefully he's learnt that you don't harrass women or they might fight back.

I think my daughter has done him a favour. Possibly one less male pest in the making. Maybe if the adults in his life had taught him that, she wouldn't have had to hit him.

Just to add, @Kibble29 - I recognise the dining room situation you're talking about. I'm guessing that it's a BAM [no pun intended] construction? They've used variations of the same design all across Scotland and in some parts of England.

My old school's Business Manager was injured when someone threw a full water bottle at them from the balcony.

In another school with the same basic design, seniors targeted juniors by throwing bags of flour at them.

We always said to never start it, tell a teacher whenever it happens, but if that doesn't stop it then yes - always finish it. Sometimes it's all bullies understand

They have never taken any crap more than once

Teachers are definitely worried about the parents, there's no doubt about that.

I do have a couple of teenage family members at school in Glasgow and the kind of situation you mention there happens more often than people would think.

Things like people being stripped naked for a laugh in the PE changing room, vapes being used in class, kids pouring soup off the top balcony onto the main dinner hall at the bottom.

I get the impression that teachers are nervous about making a mistake in relation to disciplining these kids. It won’t take much for the aggressive kids (probably equally aggressive) parents to be up at the school demanding to see the headteacher because “that teacher has always hid it in fur ma wean”.

The kids I know - they’re S1 and S4. Their school has messages about zero tolerance for bullying all through their school handbook, but it’s not worth the paper it’s written on.

Someone raised the "What if there's a knife?" question.

I have very bad news for you - thugs will pull out a knife even if their victim is trying to get away - and this isn't new. I saw that when I stopped an assault in a pupil concourse area 30 yrs ago. (A male teacher was supposed to be supervising. He "didn't hear a thing because he was on the phone.)

Before anyone asks: yes, I've had permanent posts in three secondary schools over nearly 40 yrs, all in an area with "multiple indicators of deprivation".

No, and definitely not very young children. Small children are terrible at telling the difference between something being done by accident and on purpose, I've had to break up scuffles that have started with one child accidentally bumping into others/whacking their book bag into someone else etc etc. Clumsy children without enough awareness of personal space plus being told to hit/push back is not a happy combination.

Deliberate hitting happens sometimes of course but a lot of the time when someone gets hurt, it's clumsiness and over exuberance. And little kids will almost always tell you the other person did it 'on purpose'. So I always say, if someone is hurting you, run away. Then tell a teacher.

Running away is probably safer advice for adults as well!

Self defence is to prevent violence not get revenge for violence.

I think bullying starts very subtly with the perp testing people out with little things and then getting bolder and bolder . These people rely on silence , so I have a 123 rule once I will ignore, twice is a co incidence , the third time is deliberate and I will stamp down on it by telling them I don't put up with it ,and I will escalate to further to someone in authority. Kick up a fuss . By the time it restores to physical violence, the perp is confident of getting away with it .

Absolutely hit back in self defence but be aware if the police get involved then it's likely that both of you will be seen in the wrong .

There was absolutely nothing impulsive about it. Always the same children (usually girls or younger years) targeted by the same children who were being described in the previous post.

My girls are told to kick, hit and run to an adult if anyone tries to harm them. I don’t want them ever to be a target. Luckily they’ve never been in that position.

My daughter is only two, but I've watched her hit any kid that is mean to her.

I'm not against her standing up for herself, but I've taught her to say sorry. So now... A big kid crashes into her, she turns around and whacks them, they burst into tears and she says "sorry" and gives them a quick hug.

Not sure if that's right or not - but I haven't told her not to hit if someone is hitting or being mean to her. Standing up for herself seems to be innate, she also shouts at others who are mean or unfair to her

In reply to your first paragraph, what would you have a 14 year old boy do, who’s being hit daily at school by his peers? Get their mummy to phone the school? Tell a teacher and spend their breaks hiding in a toilet?

You’re honestly kidding yourself if you think that running to a teacher or sending the local PCSO to the other child’s house will solve anything.

Yes my child will be told to hit back and hit harder, he’ll be nobody’s punching bag.

@Kibble29 I'll just add here that I did a bit of supply early on this year.

I had a situation where a boy came running screaming into my class (after the bell - he wasn't one of mine) closely followed by a thug.

They were only S1/Y8. No panic button in this school and I couldn't get to the phone. Managed to walk the thug backwards out of the door and lock it. (Yes, I worried that I'd be in trouble for doing that. There's also the fact that I'm in my 60s with bad knees, bad shoulders and arthritis.) Phoned for back up.

in the meantime, one of the kids still in the room gleefully opened the door. (The lock only operates on the exterior, not the interior.) Of course, the bully ran back in.

I had to put the victim in the corner of the classroom and stand in front of him while we waited for assistance. If they'd been a bit older and bigger, I'd have had no chance.

I later found out that the victim had been assaulted by the thug previously and that the usual useless measures had been taken. As you say, the school might as well have put a neon light above the victim's head. The thug has a difficult home life, apparently.

I'm sympathetic to that, but my sympathy ends when he starts to beat another child.

Can I ask (genuinely interested) how many times you would allow (for lack of better word) another child to hit your child?
If for instance, they have used their words and told the teacher, but they are still being targeted?
I absolutely believe in empowering children to use their voice, walk away, seek help, but what if those methods are not effective?
Of course it would be the parent's job to contact the school and hold them accountable for protecting your child, but, in the meantime they are still being hurt.
I am not completely disagreeing with you, I am just wondering if you would ever think there is grounds to hit back?

Yes. The law is clear on self-defence. I fully expect my child to defend themselves. After all, snitches get stitches so may as well smack back instead of making it worse for themselves.

Can't believe the number of people voting for teach them to hit back. Jesus what is the matter with people. This attitude is what causes street and gang violence to escalate and is the justification for young men carrying knives around 'for protection'. If you hit back you're as bad as the one who started it. 'He started it' counts for nothing.

In court self defence only counts as a defence for violence if 'reasonable" which means just enough to get away from the situation or to avoid immediate serious danger. Not a licence to beat the shit out of or stab someone who 'started it'. If the victim could have got help from police for example then it's no defence.

The only exception to this as far as kids are concerned in my opinion would be if someone much bigger/stronger/older than you (ie an adult) grabs you, kick and scream. And if anyone attempts to sexually assault you, you have the right to use violence enough to get away eg knee in the balls.

Absolutely not for if another kid hits you.

That’s interesting.

Whilst these kids might be ND, they still know who to target and who to leave alone.

School leadership is crap then. In my experience anyone hitting is punished. Anyone. However I live in a leafy lane area and it’s rare. My DC didn’t go to school with such horrors. I’d move.

We had next-door-neighbours growing up with two kids younger than me.
My friend and I were out playing in the back when the older kid came over uninvited and started harassing us.
He wouldn’t leave, and he began insulting us and knocking over our little “kitchen” made from boxes.
Then he began shoving me, and my reaction was to punch him in the face.
I gave him a bloody nose.
We were about 7 or 8.
He ran home to tattle, but we never heard from his mother.
That stupid little kid grew up to be a doctor. An MD. I can’t believe it. I hope I’m never sick in his town, wherever he lives now.

We have had some violent children who fit your description at our school and guess who they go for? Not the ones who will hit back but those who will take a smack to the head and not retaliate. It really isn’t fair to put other children’s needs above your own.

I agree with you one hundred per cent.

Could tell you were in Scotland by your username. 😀

I'm in Scotland too and I’ve heard of this idea of the victims being escorted to classes, leaving slightly later/earlier. I think it’s ludicrous - might as well stick a neon sign above their head singling them out as a grass/loser.

I’m not quite sure teaching them one thing then arbitrarily deciding that at a finger in the air time in their life is suddenly a time to unlearn socialised behaviors, especially around impulse control.

I can give several stories of fights at work involving employees and people in managerial roles/ positions of authority that have resulted in physical altercations. Although not common it certainly happens and regularly results in dismissal.

If the school is not doing enough to protect its students, then that is something that needs to be addressed, and if they fail to address it and a child is getting physically assaulted then I would call the police if that was my child. It’s a crime at the end of the day.

We had one case where a boy kept targeting girls - kept punching them or kicking them. He was S3/Y10.

I kept reporting him to the SLT. Nothing was done.

One day, he started on an S4/Y11 girl in the playground. She thumped him. He left school permanently - his family claimed that he was being home schooled.

I'm not a violent parent teaching a violent child as someone said above. My child was standing up for herself against her bully on the school playground (they were both around 13yo). He instigated the bullying on the playground that day. She didn't go looking for it, he brought it to her and she hit back.

I didn't give a fuck why the child was bullying my daughter, whether he had SEN, or issues at home. School could have found this out (or would have already known) and they could have addressed it sensitively with that in mind whilst protecting my daughter. Instead they presumed he fancied her and it was all misguided attention seeking, which she should clearly put up with as a 'be nice' girl. So she 'misguided' her water bottle at him and put an end to it.