To baby my teenage sons?

@IamFineIamFINE I get it. I was independant very young and was never doted on. I wanted to give my sons what I wasn't given just like you. Sometimes it can go too far I suppose. Mine are 14 (ND and definitely not independant and might never be, who knows) and 11. I'm starting slowly to demand my youngest to do certain chores but ofcourse it's hard when he sees his big brother get a free pass because of his mental struggles. So it seems unfair why I don't want to ask too much.. it's really hard..

Seconded. I was pretty direct earlier in the thread but you've taken this on board with grace and it seems like you're genuinely reflecting.

It will be good for everyone - you, your teens, their future partners and lives - if you establish more of a life for yourself, make them more self-sufficient, and are able to wean yourself from being "needed" by them. More outside interests for you that require them to fend for themselves more often would be a great start. Maybe even some counselling. After all, do you want them to think of Mum as someone always at home cooking and cleaning and waiting on people and needing to be needed and needing them to be babies, or as an independent, interesting woman with her own life and interests who makes them feel good by treating them as the competent adults they are?

Fair play to you @IamFineIamFINE you are really considering all the points made. I’m sure your boys will relish the chance to take care of you a bit more.

I am currently divorcing a man child who came from a house like this. Especially in hard times men go back to expecting the women in their life to baby them. At the worst time I was on the edge and would walk into every room to stuff everywhere, dirt everywhere, to hear his complaints about the mess. When I asked him what he was going to do about it I would get shouted at. His mother felt it was my role to support her boy at this time... no care for me or anyone looking after me!
Don't be this woman. Give them a day each to do dinner, take turns doing laundry and rotate cleaning rooms. This is taking care of them in the best way! It's taking care of their future.

@IamFineIamFINE thank you! tbh it was one of my more successful relationships. Lol.
I think men with terrible/non existent relationships with their mums are just as bad if not worse. I can see you're very caring. Just try and give them as much independence as possible. It'll be easier in the long run! X

Surely that means they know how to act around others?

No, is the short answer to that.
The long version goes as follows: yes, they are polite, but politeness is a fundamental expectation, not a high bar, and not even a middling bar.

Your eldest is asking you very nicely to let him behave like a decent young man. You're ignoring him. You're not being kind here yourself, OP. You're modeling not listening to people when they tell you what they need. That is what your sons are seeing.

They're also seeing a woman whose entire identity seems to revolve around doing quite servile tasks for them. For starters, it's embarrassing for them. But more importantly, they're not seeing a woman whose life is full of her own projects that are not related to them.
Will they shy away from such a woman when they're looking for a life partner?
What comfort zone are you creating for them?
What gendered dynamic of family life are you presenting to them?
What bedrock unexamined assumptions are you instilling in them? What you say is not as important as what you do.

Above all, what approach to relationship are you presenting to them? There's more to relationships than filling physical needs.

What needs of your own are you filling here, to the detriment of your sons?

What effect does ignoring their emotional needs have on them?
Does it tie them to you in a debt of gratitude? Is that what you're looking for here?
Does it make them feel unable to be direct with you when expressing their needs? Are they looking after your feelings instead of getting up and bringing their own plates to the kitchen or sorting out their own laundry? If so, who is the parent here?

How would your sons feel if they had a mum who took up 5k running or joined an evening pottery class or a local choir and this meant they would have to cook, clean up, and do their own ironing two or three evenings a week? How comfortable would you feel putting your name down for activities and telling them your news?

You seem to associate serviliry with maintaining a relationship. Is there an idea in your head that keeping them fairly helpless in the domestic sphere will mean your hope that they would return home after a failed relationship will become a prophecy? I'm not saying you're planning for their relationships to end in painful circumstances, but you're not planning for things to work out swimmingly for them as equal partners in running a home either. Is there a teeny tiny little part of you that would feel a bit jealous of any women they chose as a girlfriend or partner? Would you feel rejected, deep down?

A very important consideration here that you may not have thought about is the effect of domestic incompetence on the self esteem of teens in every other area of their lives. Academics, career, willingness to apply for challenging roles, ability to negotiate a salary - ambition and drive in general can be scuttled by being treated as a helpless child long after teens cease to be children. Resilience is another important victim of mollycoddling. Your hope that they would return to you and not rely on their own gumption if they had a big setback is concerning.

Childhood neglect has huge ramifications here. Did you absorb a message that you weren't valued or valuable in your own right? That dreams or aspirations of yours weren't important? That physical care was the only important part of a parent-child relationship? Did you feel you had to work hard for love or attention?

Kindly OP, this is serving your needs, not theirs.

You are not a bad parent if you step back and allow your children to develop independence and life skills and self reliance. In fact it's the opposite. It sounds like you had to do that before you were ready and that was very hard for you, but you already have given your sons a very different experience than you had.

They're asking you to stop doing so much and allow them to become adults. Respect your sons enough to allow them to do this, and be proud of their development into capable adults. This is our job.

@IamFineIamFINE awww op.
I will be the same as you but I don't want to be!

By doing it all you are conditioning them to 'expect' someone else to do things. (Partner/ friend/ house sharer)

Whilst they may ask you not to do things or sometimes do things themselves- they are learning to navigate life their way and you do need to let them.

Think about it, as babies they learnt to walk because they were 'let go' but if you had held them all the time they would have had a delay in walking.

I still have the major ick from seeing how my 18 yo boyfriend was mollycoddled by his mum, about 35 years ago. She bought his underwear for him in the same style I think she chose when he was a toddler. 🤣

Regularly entered his bedroom to pick laundry and wash it, returning it ironed. Bought him all sorts of bizarre toiletries and products. Him and his younger brother were so pampered they basically got whatever they asked for.
The mum would serve them tinned spaghetti hoops (on it's own) at the dining table as if it was condon bleu cuisine. While I was offered nothing? They weren't poor, far from it.

I had been self sufficient since 14, cooking all my own meals and my mum gave me a budget for the week. We were bereaved and she was working so I had to step up. I guess it toughened me up a little bit. Not that I'd wish losing a parent at 13 on anyone.

Obviously this boy didn't know his arse from his elbow sex/relationship wise. When we moved in together he didn't clean the bathroom or kitchen once. He also ran away when a load of violent thugs started on us, leaving me to be punched in the face. A 6'2 18 year old. I was 15. 🙁

He was actually a nice enough guy really. But I thought his mum did him zero favours.

I’ll give you the feedback that both my husband & his brother have given over the years. They absolutely regret the way their mother babies them over the years, she didn’t expect them to do anything & loved doing it all for them. It’s caused major major issues for them both since they left home. Firstly his mum had a breakdown over her empty nest syndrome then she tried to insert herself into our lives so much so we had to take our spare keys off her because ‘she needed to feel needed’ & ‘wanted to help us out’ so she’d let herself in & do things in our homes which caused major arguments.

both boys didn’t have a clue what they needed to do to run a house & it fell into us women. It caused massive issues as we had to constantly tell them to do x & z etc because they’d never done it before we had to teach them. His brother & SIL never had kids because his brother (even though older is still too much hardwork for SIL, he can’t do anything without a list & step by step instructions). My husband is incredible now & more than pulls his weight but we nearly split up over it because I didn’t want to become his mum & teach him how to be an adult.

you’re not doing them any favours & both my husband & his brother wishes they were raised differently & how much easier it would have been if they were. We have two boys & my husband was determined that they were not going to be raised the way he was & we’ve made sure they know how to do everything around the house & make sure they do it