Or is this Santa post unreasonable?

I genuinely don't understand why it's miserable.

For many people, Christmas is nothing to do with Santa - it's about family time, Christmas lights, traditions, good food, presents, games and fun, festive activities. You honestly don't need to tell your children that Santa exists to have the magic.

Really, are you that ridiculous.

We are talking about five year old children if you have ever met one then yes they may very well say unintentionally hurtful things, because they are children.

We teach this for safeguarding. In case you haven't heard, it works!

You are welcome.

It's not lying though. They're not being asked if santa is real or being asked for an opinion on the matter. It's on the same level as not telling someone you know what present they are getting for their birthday. You may know but there is no reason to tell them. If they do/did say something, they wouldn't be punished for it or anything.

So you always tell the absolute truth if it is asked for or not? You tell the teenager who is self conscious that she looks a mess? You tell the child who is going into hospital for tests that the doctor thinks it's cancer and he might die?

What I think society needs is people who can think outside the box and understand that they aren't the arbiter of all that is great.

Yes the absolute unasked for truth is such a great thing isn't it.

But kids have been doing this forever! I'm in my 60's and can remember "Santa isn't real" being hotly debated on the playground when we were as young as 5!

The "believers" would go home and ask their Mum who would usually counter with "Well, what do you believe?" Isn't that the point after all? You can't demand empirical evidence of Santa.

The difference is that there are a subset of parents who seem hugely invested in their children believing in Santa. They go to great extremes to keep the fantasy going long after the child has expressed doubts. They can't let it go because then "Christmas won't be magical anymore". They really, really want to think that their 13 year old still believes because they're such "pure and innocent souls".

In other words...some parents make it all about themselves. It's what they want. So their kids humour them.

Lying by omission is lying. So you want the child told to keep any secret by an adult to not disclose?

You can't put adult insight into nuanced secrets. A little bit of joined up thinking by the grown ups would be nice.

The irony of placing this on the shoulders of five year olds is baffling.

@CynicalSunni Equating children with speaking the truth isn't people displeasing. It's what we want as society, authentic individuals with strong sense of morals. That means not lying.

The issue is the entitlement attitude of adults lying wanting other adults and child to participate. Using the guise of it's tradition is veiled discrimination of those who hold different beliefs and isn't very nice is it.

It really is as simple as this.

(Thank you 😊)

My children were simply told that some people believe santa is real so dont go spoiling it for them. And as far as I am aware they didn't. They didn't have to lie. They just said nothing.

I couldn't live that miserably, to be honest. Where does the truth telling end? Do you tell them the TV shows they watch or the books they read were constructed by a team of people for profit as well? What about their teddy or doll they love so much - that's just plastic, probably made in a sweat shop by a kid their age, and bad for the environment too. Or is there a limit to your utter joylessness?

I think equating telling children to not ruin santa for others to making people pleasers is a bit of a leap.

Not telling other children the truth about santa doesnt really affect the child does it?
People pleasing has a dentrimental affect. Or you prefer to go completely opposite abd do people unpleasing?

@CynicalSunni so you want us to raise another generation of people pleasing individuals, ? Nope.

And it is daft saying children have to lie. We have spent decades teaching them the opposite for their protection.

No need for name calling.
I just disagree with you 🤣
I was taught at 8 when i found out to not be mean and tell other people.
Lying by omisson i suppose, but i wanted to be nice

Telling the truth is respectful stop being daft. Honestly people need to grow up.

I didnt say they had to lie did i?
I said be respectful. As in not going around announcing to children whk do believe that its all lies
Some people are only interested in the truth when it upsets people

I think you're the one overthinking, to be honest.

Someone has a different opinion to you about whether to tell their children about Father Christmas. So what? Just carry on doing what you want to do. You're perfectly at liberty to ignore any advice you're given. You do your thing and other families can do theirs. It's a non-issue.

😂😂😂😂 oh hunny there's no onus in the minority to tote your lies.

It isn't asking them to maintain the lie, just to keep their opinion to themselves when they know sticking in their two cents' worth will cause upset or offence.

More so if their opinion hasn't even been sought as IME it is rarely said as part of a general discussion or a slip up, it is almost always announced with the purpose of upsetting the audience.

We're talking about little kids here though - they're not mature enough to fully understand the consequences of what's upsetting and what's not. They're also not going to understand why mummy and daddy can say Santa isn't real but they can't.

There's a big gap between telling a 5yr old that "other people do things differently" and telling them that other mummies and daddies are big fat liars.

I don't think any parent is going around saying that though are they? Come on 😂

Five year olds come out with all sorts of nonsense - it's not necessarily stuff they've heard from home. What they actually hear and what they decide they hear are often two incredibly different things!

Sarah Ockwell-smith is a quack and talks nonsense,She also cherry picks her research.

I am not saying kids cant say they dont believe.

Going about saying your parents are lying to you or announcing it as some children like to be mean is different.

It is a well known tradition. Onus is on the people who decide to be a minority to tell their children to be respectful. They can say i dont believe in santa etc.
But there seems to be a bit of nastiness/ contrarianism in people who must announce THE TRUTH. For no other reason than its THE TRUTH.

It really isn't so deep . A child going on about Santa it isn't unreasonable for another to say I don't believe

Why on earth are you putting your choice of lie on to a child? You are being ridiculous. It isn't a truth. It is the TRUTH.

Why do they have to lie? They dont have to say anything.

Why are the children who dont believe in santa suddenly the arbitors of truth?
That they must announce this truth cause they dont want to go along with a lie.

So you want us to tell our children to lie on your behalf, em nope.

Seriously have a head wobble.

There's a big gap between telling a 5yr old that "other people do things differently" and telling them that other mummies and daddies are big fat liars. You could do the former as well.

Anyway my 12 and 18 year olds know that FC is very real and know that I have absolutely nothing to do with it all at all.