Or is this Santa post unreasonable?

You want to apply intention as the scale to lying?

You described a child using their imagination. Not a social conspiracy that Santa appears to be. Hardly comparable.

And yes I would have reflected back, w query really that truly happened? To indicate that it was obviously a tall tale

How otherwise are you being inclusive to children who hold literal understanding due to ASD?

😂

You are entitled to your opinion. Have a good day, Ms M. Superiority.

Is she saying people should actively tell kids he isn't real or just to not say one way or the other. It's hard to tell from the screenshot.

Most people don't actively tell their kids that the characters in storybooks are or aren't real, or the ones on shows and TV. I view Santa and similar the same way. The kids will decide what is magical for them far more than we adults can.

My kids went to see Thomas the Tank Engine when they were little, rode in the carriages, they were delighted, I thought it was magical - I never said he was real, never asked to explain it or have any talk on it.

We don't do Christmas, so I told my kids that Father Christmas was part of the other people's festive fun, and we don't try to ruin others fun or be mean about their holidays by saying things like it's just a story (or for one of my kids, go on about how much he hated the 'Christmas costume' and how too many people were wearing it in town when there is only meant to be one FC) just like we wouldn't want them to do it to us.

We did do tooth pixies. I did check when they were about 10 or so that they knew it was a game because they each talked like it was real to their younger siblings/kids, even coming up with strange explanations and going on about 'what would mum and dad want with our teeth?' in a way they didn't for books or shows, but they all knew & found my asking funny - more than one reminded me that that had read and watched The Hogfather. Not sure why it was tooth pixies caught their imaginations so much, but for them it was far more magical than I ever could have done intentionally.

I think it depends on the intentions.

Children by their nature are imaginative, they want to make believe! Just the other day a pupil in my class was telling me how when he went to Buckingham Palace and actually King Charles came out to talk to him and asked him to be king when he turns 12. You may be horrified to learn, I didn't tell him it was wrong to lie! I asked him of he would remember me when he is king and send a bar of gold.

Considering there has never been any studies or research into trauma from the 'santa lie' suggests that generations of children have actually been unscathed. And the fact that the huge majority of them do it for their own children indicates it was actually a very happy part of their childhood.

I know someone who was the youngest child in her family by some years, and when she found out, felt that the whole family had colluded in lying to her. She continues to have trust issues with her family forty years later, not just because of this, but certainly not helped by it.

So I would definitely avoid the line of older siblings being told not to tell younger ones.

You made a point where it was insinuated there was a potential threat if the truth was told. I simply stated that I'm a case like that then it is protecting the person.

Lying about fairy tales isn't comparable no.

You're funny.

But its all lies according to you.
Doesnt matter how rare.

Though i think most of your arguments are really comparable to not saying anything about santa.

Interesting one this.

I am a bit of a Scrooge and don’t care for the pomp and fuss around Christmas. I enjoy eating and being together as a family for a good two weeks, but the gifts and activities are really not for me.

I am all for telling children that Santa is just a fun story, they aren’t a real person and the people responsible for buying the gifts are family and friends. However, my husband, who grew up in a single parent household, and for who money was super tight, his mother told him the truth and there were no Santa visits, no trips to markets or the theatre, none of the usual traditional stuff, and a a result, he is really keen to make these ‘magical’ experiences.

It’s up to families what they want to do. I don’t for a second think that the lie damages or prevents children from understanding right from wrong.

There was an interesting twitter thread that my colleague showed me and it was written by a lady, who was now a grandparent, describing how she made the choice, as young single mother, to not go along with the Father Christmas story, she said she was quite militant and her circumstances, she felt, dictated that. She is now a grandma and her daughter is going along with Santa and the thread was describing her regret at not doing it for her daughter. She says she wished she had provided these magical experiences and felt like she had almost been a bit spiteful in keeping her kids from believing.

I don’t know, I’m 9 year old knows it’s not real, I think my 5 year old knows to some extent aswell. He never asks for much and we aren’t going to write letters or visit him this year and he doesn’t seem at all bothered by that. We will be leaving carrot and cookies out, and to them, even the 9 year old, that’s the best tradition.

So again you want a 5 year old to act like an adult, okay.

Really? I would suggest that it is very rare situations and not exactly to do with a child belief in a fairy tale comparable.

If you don't know that not lying is morally superior that then that explains a lot.

You are placing unrealistic and unreasonable expectation on a child. That is a hell of a lot crueller because you are meant to be the adult.

Huh? How other people raise their children is none of my business. I don't care what skills other children have or don't have. I'm only concerned with raising my children. Children don't just magically turn into good adults when they turn 18. They start learning from the moment they are born. Five-year-olds aren't too young to be told that different people have different beliefs. It doesn't mean they will understand it on an adult level, but they are capable of understanding what hurt feelings are.

And honesty is stupid at times as it can put you in real danger.
So i will forgo morals on occasion.

The best way to sell help books is to convince potential purchasers think that theyre doing something wrong.

Plenty of people use 'honesty' as an excuse to be cruel. They can say unkind and hurtful things but justify it because they are 'telling it like it is.'

Saying all 'truths' are universally morally superior is very narrow minded.

I repeat, the belief that any parent is morally superior to another for not doing Santa with their kids is nonsense.

So you want one five year old to have adult skills because the other doesn't?

Your expectations could be mirrored on the Santa child ? No? Why not?

Children talk, give opinions. You are unfairly placing adult emotional intelligence in a child.

The child telling the truth is simply telling the truth. You know the thing parents spend a lot of time and energy teaching them to do.

That's not about the child finding out the truth imo. I think it's because it ruins the parents' fun and choice for their child(ren). That poster is not devasted because her child is devasted. She's devastated because she can no longer pretend to her child that Santa is real.

I always think it's just so nice and fun and magical that the whole of society (pretty much, clearly a few on this thread who this doesn't include 😁) agree to go along with the Santa thing - people you pass in the street, schools/nurseries, councils (our local council do loads of santa related things), shops, TV stations, even bloody NORAD! PURELY so kids get presents. What isn't to like about that?

You can dress it up as anything you like but lying is lying.

Not lying is morally superior by any scale. The lie is irrelevant.

It's not asking them to lie at all. They aren't being asked to pretend santa is real to others. They aren't being told to tell other people santa is real. They're being asked to respect other people's beliefs. If they go around crapping on people's happiness and shooting down their beliefs and opinions they'll end up with no friends. Learning when to open your mouth and when to bite your tongue are important life skills.

Christmas time and Santa are my best memories of Christmas. Each to their own but that magical feeling and excitement was amazing & joyous when I was a kid.

No I didn't.

But I taught them I would always be truthful and I expected the same from them.

My family work across a lot of child protection areas from forensic to legal and therapeutic professionals so they are well aware of predators and liars.

They have had the benefit of their input.

I don't see it as lying to children, I see it as creating magic for them that is very rare in this world. By the time that most children find out they are emotionally mature enough to understand and join in with creating that magic for the younger children. In fact, the only kids I have known to reveal it to 'believing kids' are the ones who never did Santa. Probably because they can't appreciate it.

I don't think there is any harm in creating a sense of magic, it can only happen for such a short time. If someone doesn't want to do it with their kids that's their prerogative. But the idea that they are morally superior for not doing it is nonsense.

Some do, sure.

I just find it bizarre that there are grown adults who are apparently "devastated" that other children have chosen to tell their children the truth about a fictional character, lol. Surely as a parent this is something you need to think about and prepare for if you're going to go along with the whole "Santa" thing?