Or is this Santa post unreasonable?

The concept of Father Christmas originated from Pagan traditions, i.e. Saxon Vikings, so he's probably more likely to have been around in Scotland before he got to England, and before Santa Claus, who came from the Netherlands, but apparently made it to America before coming back to the UK and merging with Father Christmas.

Do you mean that the teachers in your family tell small children that Father Christmas is a lie, even where the child believes in the story and the family are happy to so along with that?

@curtaintwitcher78

I'm 57, in NE Scotland, and Santa has always been Santa here. I don't like the "Father Christmas"

I think calling him that is more of an English thing, no-one I knew called him Father Christmas until I met XH.

My own 😌 grew up with Santa

Really you find my question about Sen laughable? Lovely.

Good night. Thankfully the teachers in my family are the opposite approach.

I said you were trying to insult me. I didn't find it insulting, I found it laughable.

You are extremely shortsighted about the demands of education and the impossible balance it is. It is very easy for someone to say the guidance for this type of child is x,y,z therefore you just do it. The fact is the guidance for another type of child with special needs can be different. And the reality that most classrooms will have a range of kids with different needs that may contradict what best suits another. As a professional, I seek to meet each individual child's needs but not at the expense of another, every child is important.

But it's also more or less a completely redundant tangent on this thread. The huge majority of my pupils over the years, including SEND children, believed in Santa until about 8/9. I would be very surprised if any government give educators guidance on how to manage the different beliefs in Santa, putting it very firmly in a grey area. It is entirely up to teachers how they manage it. Thankfully, the majority of teachers respect parent wishes and make the 'morally wrong' choice to play along.

This is so sad - and so true.

If you're teaching your children that Santa is real, how do you explain the millions of children who wake up with nothing?

In our family we have children who were adopted at (relatively) older ages. They vividly remember the times when they received no presents on Christmas. They have had to endure more than one charming child telling them, "My mummy says Santa doesn't bring you presents if you're naughty." For them, it was a relief to know that Santa wasn't real. These are children who have already had to cope with much more than anyone ever should. For them to believe that Santa ignored them because they weren't good enough is not something we're willing to allow.

I know there are many people who insist on maintaining their children's belief in Santa, often for years beyond the age of natural scepticism. But I wonder how they explain the fact that Santa doesn't actually visit all children around the world, and even in their own country, something that would be apparent as they get older and become aware of poverty and other issues.

I think if you're unable to comprehend that all children are different and the 'magic' of Christmas is entirely individual, to children and families, then that's a far bigger issue than whether you've done the whole Santa shtick with your kids not. Magic is about the experiences you have, not the reality behind them. Children love make believe, so them pretending that Santa is real is the ultimate make believe anyway.

My 5yo non-believer is leaping around the living room singing jingle bells right now with her little sister and they are pretending to be Santa and reindeer Pretty sure she's got the Christmas magic still.

The fact you are deflecting with a cry of cruelty when I ask about how you would approach the challenge of balance does make me question you.

I queried your approach to inclusion in a set scenario, you deem that insulting, interesting. The answer I imagine would blow open your grey area.

As all guidance to educators in my country is to always ensure the literal thinker are provided reassurance and clarity.Thus going against your grey area theory.

Conflating imagination and play with a societal expectations of a universal lie is not accurate. And not an appropriate comparison.

A child imagination engagement is at that level it includes plot holes and serves a purpose in development.The children are aware of their imagination and it changes as they develop more critical analysis skills.

You WANT your children to know the presents are from you. As I said, all about you.

I believed in him till I was secondary age although my parents never went to particular lengths. Just gullible I guess. I don't feel betrayed but once I found out all the magic had gone. I do appreciate some of the fun things my parents did in the spirit of FC.

My happy childhood memories are about seeing loved ones, going to church, writing Christmas cards and walking out to post them with my mum, choral Christmas music, making mince pies, school plays and concerts, school crafts, church parties.

The actual presents were exciting as a young child but that waned by the time I stopped believing.

I think too much emphasis on Santa makes it very materialistic and could result in the disappointment many adults feel about Christmas.

Santa is part of my tradition with my kids but I don't expect them to actually believe in it for long, the 5 year old is questioning already.

Don't be ridiculous.

We do exactly the same!

The fact that you are now trying to insult my professional capability also explains a lot!

I shared a real experience with a child playing male believe and you inserted a fictional child with ASD to justify being cruel to him.

The fact that all children are not the same, is the grey area! I taught year 6 last year and the only child that still believed in Santa was a child with ASD. The whole class played along for his benefit. They clearly had a greater maturity than some adults do.

You will find many, many studies about the importance of make believe, role play and imagination for a childs development. Shutting that down is cruel.

You can make whatever assumptions you want about my professional capability. They won't get to me, but I do think it's VERY telling you are trying to insult me in such a way.

@Nolegusta Poor thing. You stole that magical Christmas feeling from him 😥

So there is truth, lies and in-between and that's what you teach children?

Given you claim to be an educational professional your capacity to comprehend is surprisingly lacking.

I specifically mentioned a child who had literal understanding. I did not reference all children with ASD. I did so because not all children with ASD are the same.

I specifically went on to state a child with literal understanding. There are many and I again question if you are happy that a child now has extra work to figure out your 'grey areas' ?

How is questioning your inclusion approach cruel ? So you don't do inclusive education?

I think there is a scale yes. I don't think all lies are morally wrong. I believe there is a the grey area and there is nothing you can say that will change my mind.

Also in my experience, lots of autistic children can believe in Santa and make believe stories for longer than their peers.

But the fact you are making up a child to justify being unnecessarily cruel to another explains a lot.

I didn't twist your words my dear at all.

I have news for you. Children waking up and seeing the surprises I bought them is also a source of joy.

"From what I've read on here, the parents say they don't want to 'lie' about Santa, it's all about them and how they feel. Not about giving their children an extra bit of happiness."

The hypocrisy of the statement above is hilarious. Because the issue is the parents lying and insisted the rest of us gets on board for their own feelings!

I said I found YOU funny.
You're aware that twisting words is dishonest, right?

And before anyone tries to be witty, I know I'm not fun at parties. I'm not trying to be.

Anyone who has seen the joy on a child's face when they get up on Christmas morning and think that Santa has been, eaten whatever was left out, and brought presents for them, couldn't deny them the pleasure of this harmless custom. From what I've read on here, the parents say they don't want to 'lie' about Santa, it's all about them and how they feel. Not about giving their children an extra bit of happiness.

So a 6 year old who knows the truth about Santa is meant to say what exactly when asked by a 6 year who believes "What do you want from Father Christmas?"

We praise children for being clear and truthful then expect them to execute mental gymnastics because someone's mum decided to perpetuate a patriarchal lie that rewards a magical man for the work of, let's face it, mostly mum.

It just shows how so much of the world is half-asleep and numbed by "tradition".

Terry Pratchett had it right: we need to learn to accept the little lies to believe the big ones. Truth. Justice. That sort of thing.

How delightful

I am glad you find the truth funny 🧐