Or is this Santa post unreasonable?

And just to add ‘the different people believe different things’ cuts both ways. I respect other people’s right to religion (insofar as it doesn’t clash with other values I hold) and wish them to respect my right to have different beliefs. That’s not the same as me pretending to believe in their religion. If a child who doesn’t believe in Father Christmas should keep quiet with a ‘some people believe’ then why isn’t a ‘some people believe’ equally valid for a believing child who encounters non-belief in Santa.

I read an article by a child psychologist that said the magic isn't about whether Santa is real or not, it's about the imagination and the pretend play they do around it. They made the point of a child's tea party - the child knows there isn't real tea in the teapot and the cups, yet they pour the tea carefully, pretend to stir, take delight in serving out the tea to their stuffed toys, etc. The imagination and creative play is the magic, not believing in the reality. The hanging out the stocking and putting food out for the reindeer is the magic bit, not the outcome.

I do, I'm have clearly stated that. But you and others are placing insight of an adult onto a child, to maintain your lie .

The responsibility isn't on us or our children.

Why are you being so aggressive??!

Does she feel the same about the toothfairy? and other mythical things we speak to children about. I grew up in Ireland and were told all about the banshee, I believed it existed for years, that frightened the hell out of me so that is definitely not one I have not passed on to my kids.

FWIW I have a colleague who never had Santa, her parents were not from the UK and it wasn't a tradition they grew up with. They are catholic so did celebrate Christmas. She, to this day feels resentment about that and feels she was denied the magical experience of Santa and felt really excluded because of it in school. She has brought Santa to her home with her kids

For the most part kids, when they are at an age to think critically begin to understand that Santa can't possibly be real, no harm or trauma fgs just growing out of a childhood belief along with the toothfairy, easter bunny etc

Come back and tell us how you feel when your child is two.

I don't mean that in a patronising way. I'd have probably said exactly this before mine were born.

They don't like grottos or seeing Santa, that's never really been part of the 'magic' for us.

I don't even really like the phrase but there is something unbelievably special about tucking in a young child full of an excitement that is somehow different to everything else.

My elder child is at the stage where I don't think he fully believes this year. He's going along with it but suspect he knows. They work it rather than discovering a huge lie.

I think he'll love helping with the little ones next year and that is another form of fun and excitement it will bring.

Not to mention that it's a sure way to make your own child unpopular when they go round telling all their classmates.

It doesn't need to be the full over the top version, but some version is lovely and I do feel you'll be missing out on more than you realise.

It’s up to each family. Plenty don’t celebrate Christmas at all, I live in an area where the majority don’t celebrate and I have always just told my dc that everyone has different celebrations and beliefs.

I don’t like the self appointed gurus like SOS. I would class as a gentle parent but I was doing it before it had a label and people making money out of it.

IMO it’s not the Santa story that’s the problem, it’s all of the associated bullshit about naughty lists and elf based surveillance that ruins it for some kids. Some parents use December as an opportunity to use santa as a threat and it winds me up no end.
If my kid asks questions about it I stick to ‘and what do you think about that?’ And then make non committal noises - I haven’t got the energy to make up elaborate stories to explain the massive inconsistencies. We all play along and it’s fun but I’m not too worried about whether they think it’s ‘real’ or not.

The difference between Father Christmas and religion is that everyone knows it’s the children’s parents putting presents in their children’s stockings. No-one outside of childhood believes that on 24th December a man who lives at the North Pole packs up the gifts from his elf factory and flies around the world on a reindeer. So I can very comfortably tell my children that. I can’t with all confidence say that there is no God, although I think it’s vanishingly unlikely and I have no belief. I won’t be teaching my child to believe in any religion as fact because my husband and I don’t have any religious faith. And as I said in another post, children should be taught to respect the views of others - religion, Santa or otherwise- but they are children, don’t always behave perfectly and should feel free to discuss the world as they see it with their friends.

When I was a kid I believed in Father Christmas. I believed Narnia was in the back of my wardrobe and fairies lived in the garden. I believed in vampires (I was a bit goth, even when I was very small!) and ghosts and myth and magic. Now I work in a creative field and all the imagination and wonder I experienced as a child feeds into who I am today. There was never a terrible reckoning or devastating realisation when I learned 'the truth'. I grew up with an appreciation of the value of stories and folklore and the capacity to dream of different worlds. Calling it a lie is so reductive and simplistic and I really don't think most children experience it as such. It's fun, and for most families not something to take so seriously!

In Scotland he's always been Santa, no FC here!

In this family we all call him Father Christmas, too. An exception was Gdd1 when very small, and called him ‘Farmer’ Christmas. 😂
(He didn’t mind, BTW, as long as he got his tot of something warming and a couple of mince pies.)

I've not heard of Sarah Okwell Smith (and have generally found "gentle parenting" methods = nightmare unruly kids).
But, I'm probably one of those few children who did feel lied to when they find out, so I've never really made Santa out to be a big deal and told the children as soon as they asked.

It is a pretty harmless tale, and most kids figure it out for themselves anyhow, particularly if they live in a house without a chimney 😃

As a child I never felt remotely humiliated or lied to. On the contrary I was very grateful for that make-believe that made Christmas so exciting during my early years, especially given that my parents were almost invariably skint, so the stocking presents were an extra expense they could certainly have done without.

And once I found out - a gradual dawning as I recall - I was only too happy to play along for younger siblings - it was lovely to see their excitement, too.

As for the ‘gentle parenting’ author, it’s probably best if I keep my comments to myself!

I don't hear anyone say Father Christmas anymore. All the kids I know say Santa.

It's perfectly possible to have a magical Christmas without presenting Santa as the absolute, literal truth.

Why does "magical" have to include "deluding people you unavoidably have power over"?

I think its lovely for kids to believe in Father Christmas. I remember being really excited on Christmas eve waiting for him to come. My dad had some bells he used to secretly ring when we were little, he used to say that it was Father Christmas going past on his sleigh making sure we behaved before Christmas. Lovely magical times.

Isn't it often just lazy typing? I say Father Christmas IRL as do many people I know, but it is long and I am lazy so will often type 'Santa' for ease. If it will be obvious what I'm talking about, I use even fewer letters and shorten it to 'FC' 😬
Ditto Xmas/Christmas...

You can be diplomatic about it. "Some people believe..." is a respectful way to approach differences in beliefs whether it's about Santa or other aspects of lifestyle or belief systems.

I was so upset when I found out Father Christmas wasn’t real I had to take the day off work.

😀

Any talk of secret, etc by any adults to my children won't go well.

There are some things that are appropriate to keep quiet though, and not telling little kids about Santa would be in the same category as not telling dad you've bought him socks for Christmas, for me anyway.

There's also things like medical info that we teach them to keep private, and thoughts we teach them not to say out loud like "why does that man have no legs".

It's not as simple as secret = bad.

It’s not an opinion that Father Christmas doesn’t literally exist and deliver presents around the world accompanied by a red nosed reindeer. That’s a fact. It might be a fact a majority of parents don’t want their young children to know, but it doesn’t make it less true. Other people shouldn’t have to tell things they don’t want to so that their children can protect the views of others. I think children should be taught to be sensitive to others beliefs, be that in terms of religion or Father Christmas or whatever but children can and will talk to each other and their world and beliefs, and children don’t always do as they’re told by parents!

Hand on you want people to not tell because they are too young to keep a secret.

So how does that work. I have to lie to my child because of your chosen lie to your child?

So you want a five year old to not be a five year old.

Don't be ridiculous. They could easily have stood up and shared their last trip to the toilet. They literally have a brain that is forming.