Or is this Santa post unreasonable?

I really like Sarah Ockwell Smith. Her baby sleep books and toddler books were a godsend but I admit I found it hard to relate to this post when I read it on Instagram.
I think by the time older kids work it out it makes more sense that he isn’t real and aren’t too disappointed. The idea of creating magic is much more acceptable and believable by then.
I do however think my 5 year old would be absolutely crushed if someone told her. Overall, I think it’s harmless.

@doodleschnoodle totally agree with you. The magic is in the rituals, the lights, the films, the change in routine, being off school and doing lots of fun activities that you only ever do in the run up to Christmas.

You don't need to add the whole "Santa" belief if you don't want to - it really doesn't take away from any of the magic or the joy.

Kids are just as excited to get presents from mum and dad as they are from Santa - or are we saying that birthdays aren't magical as a child because there's no random man coming down the chimney and eating your food beforehand?

I’m in a few gentle parenting groups and honestly the hand wringing about Santa is insane. It’s a bit of magic, we don’t say Santa solely brings all the presents, and ensure it’s fun without focusing on Santa solely. I just don’t get the navel gazing, I don’t know any adults affected by discovering Santa isn’t real!

Tell them, don't tell them 🤷🏾‍♀️. Children will survive. Of all the children I know through family and friends (many many), only one reacted badly to the Santa fib. He recovered as soon as he received his presents.

@TunipTheVegimal24 I don't think the point is about one being as magic as the other but about how something being real or not isn't really actually important in how a child interacts with a concept.

Christmas is inherently magic as a child because there's presents, lots of sparkly lights and decorations, family time, games, all that stuff. Additional 'magic' comes from the imaginative play of putting out stockings, sprinkling reindeer food, doing rituals like that but the actual belief that it's real may not really change how much enjoyment they gain from it. That's an adult perspective as we tend to lose that kind of imaginative 'power' as we grow older and we need it to be rooted in reality.

DD1 doesn't believe as I said earlier but my god is she excited about hanging her stocking up and it being filled (albeit by me as she pointed out ).

I don't know - I'd argue the average child is more excited by Santa than a toy tea party?

Of course they are, but that doesn't mean they need to believe in Santa to feel that magic and excitement on Christmas Eve.

Personally I don't care either way what other parents choose to do about Santa but I do think they ought to have the awareness that other children will know the truth and so they can't expect those children to lie to protect theirs.

Yes I agree. It's not like finding out your adopted is it? Most children by the age of about 5 have realised that parents sometimes tell white lies. I would be amazed if discovering Santa isn't real came as a shock revelation. Most children start to wonder and ponder from a young age. I'm pretty sure my 6 yo knows that a man doesn't come down the chimney, but he's happy to engage in the fun and hasn't said anything about it. Most children know full well he's not real way before it's openly discussed with parents.

I remember going through a phase where, instead of Santa delivering presents, it was people who worked in shops (Woolworths specifically) who would come into people's houses and leave bags of presents. I believed this as I always saw Woolworths bags on Christmas day. Don't remember the specific day/age I stopped believing.
Each to their own I guess, but it seems to me like she's shaming everyone who "lets" their child believe in Santa...how can we avoid it exactly? He's everywhere! We can't deny the fact that he's "real"...maybe not an actual physical human being, but he's there in stories, myths, dreams, cuddly toys, Christmas decorations etc. He's a symbol for Christmas, in the same way as the Nativity and the birth of Jesus Christ is the symbol for Christians - are you going to tell them that Jesus wasn't real...or God for that matter? I think I'm getting carried away now though.

Everyone has their own traditions, whether this includes Santa/Saint Nicholas/Father Christmas or not. I don't think it warrants discussion in parenting guidelines though...

^THIS!

Yeah it's bullshit, kids know it's just some magic and fantasy the parents are making for them. Not some awful lie. Sounds like something the eternally offended brigade have conjured up.

PS the author of this article needs to watch miracle on 34th street and get herself an I believe badge 🤣

I don't know - I'd argue the average child is more excited by Santa than a toy tea party? Even though both are of course good.

Certainly myself, I believed in fairies as s child, as much as I believed in the nose on my face, and it did really feel amazing and special. I miss that feeling! Though am glad I was able to have it, at least for a while.

Maybe that's not everyone's experience though 🤷‍♀️

Quite. Tbh, if finding out you were lied to about Santa causes any sort of issue, then I'd assume there's something deeper going on that needs addressed.

Belief in Father Christnas is tied up with childhood innocence, which explains why some parents get upset when a child stops believing. It's a sign they are growing up. I don't think Christmas is quite the same once children stop believing. I remember feeling very bereft when I worked out Father Christmas and fairies didn't exist all on the same day, at about age 10. I never explicitly had a conversation with ds about it (young adult now) he just worked it out i think and questioned me maybe once, if at all. Neither of us feel lied to. Terming it as lying is ridiculous. I wouldn't have traded my own or ds's childhood Christmases for anything. It's a lovely, relatively short period of childhood to enjoy.

I think this is a classic lesson for all parents. You are the parent not a 'parenting expert' who is profitting from their opinion, not a book or a parenting fad designed by said 'experts' (and I say this as somebody who actually likes and follows the principles of gentle parenting) it probably depends on the individual child. You should really know whether a little white lie is ultimately going to upset your child or whether it's just bringing a little bit of joy to their very short childhood as intended.

My opinion FWIW is that there's no harm in creating a bit of pretend magic. However, if my child explicitly asked for the truth I would give it to them. My dd is 6 and I think she knows the truth deep down but we're both happy to pretend for a bit longer for now and this is fine and healthy. I will stop pretending when I stop seeing the sheer delight on her face when santa has left her gifts or her elf has moved again

That's not what I said, is it? You're misrepresentating what I did say to be something you want to argue about and so you can say the word lie a lot. I have no interest in what other people tell their children about santa. I do have interest when they malign other parents to children too young not to repeat them and tell them those children their parents are 'wrong to lie'. It's perfectly obvious from the fact I suggested alternative wording which part of the thing I'm objecting to.

''I had a breakdown when I realised that Father Christmas, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy weren't real''

Meanwhile in Gaza.......

We've never claimed he's real, but we also haven't spelled it out to dcs that he isn't real. If they start to take anything too seriously like the naughty list or whatever I say "it's just a bit of fun". Which it is.

We're Christians as well, and dcs go to Catholic school, so we do try to explain St Nicholas and what he is the patron saint of.

Saying you don't want to be patronising and then being patronising! So if we don't do the lie children miss out 🤦‍♀️

Honestly, the adults being dicks to children who tell the truth really need to step up their maturity.

The fact as adults they do not see the child telling the truth as being a positive thing that protects children from predator adults telling other lies is what really baffles me.

Honestly how they square that circle is beyond belief. Here kid here's a lie that's not good but here's one that is.

To a child of 5, 6, years old without adult insight, absolutely ridiculous. And then trying to place the responsibility on the adults who don't lie 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️😂

Wet parenting.. No wonder schools are in the parlous state they are in.
Smacking is obviously a no no, but Gentle parenting will be consigned to the bin when some new fad comes along.

It doesn't need to be the full over the top version, but some version is lovely and I do feel you'll be missing out on more than you realise

Or maybe everyone should just be left to "do"
Christmas in whatever way suits them best, and adults should be able to accept that their "way" isn't inherently better or more magical than someone else's 🤷‍♀️

I have nothing but amazing memories of Christmas growing up even though I never believed in Father Christmas. There's really no need to go round and tell people that they're missing out because they've chosen to do something differently.

If being "lied to about Santa" is the most traumatic thing that's ever happened to you, it's a charmed life you've lead indeed.

I was one of the few children who really did feel hurt when I found out the truth! I remember it vividly...I was 11, in year 6, and was arguing in the playground that he was definitely real because my mum wouldn't lie to me! I remember I got home and asked my mum and she still fudged it but I could tell from the look on her face. I was distraught! Probably unusual but I was a very well behaved first born and I remember feeling g so shocked my mom would lie to me.
As a result, we did Santa in a really light touch way and as soon as my kids asked me straight out (around the age of 6 for all of them) I told the truth, that it's a nice story that some like to believe in, but he's not a real person. They're all very logical, bright kids and I never would have felt comfortable telling elaborate lies to properly convince them of something that's not true. We still have lovely christmases!
These days, I think kids are so much more worldly wise than I ever was, it's a wonder the myth keeps going at all!

I always saw the Tooth Fairy story as useful, as it helps a child not to be upset about losing a tooth because there’s a benefit to it. Some kids are freaked out by losing teeth.
We always just had stockings from Santa, and did the same with our DC. Presents were always from who gave them. We also included the story of St Nicholas, plus stories of what happens in other European countries, so there was an understanding of a bigger picture but still magic. Parents worry about spoiling the magic for children, but that doesn’t mean you have to force the magic on them either.

Children under a certain age have magical thinking anyway. Regardless of what you tell them about Santa. For most kids their understanding of Santa changes quite naturally just as they learn as they age that toys don't really possess souls/come to life and that the past can't be changed. Handled sensibly this is a completely normal rite of passage and one that can definitely be deemed a positive rather than a sad loss of innocence.

Personally I don't feel it's necessary to believe to embrace the spirit of Christmas and all its mythology. In fact, not being a believer makes it more special - it's an excuse to indulge in traditions and a sense of magic tbh at the rest of year you may feel 🤮 about!. That's what I've passed on to my now adult DC who also seem to love it despite no longer believing in Santa.