School issue - violent kid

I could be wrong but I think what that poster is talking about the distinction between a) the school being named in section I and the LA being responsible for fees/SEP and b) the parents making their own arrangements because the LA (and SENDIST if the parents appeal) doesn’t agree to name the school/be responsible for the SEP&fees but the parents still want the child to attend the independent school. Although there’s a third scenario too where the LA doesn’t agree to to name the school/and be responsible for the fees but is willing to come to an arrangement whereby they fund the SEP if the parents fund the fees. Although the LA doesn’t have to come to such arrangements, not all LAs will and how often such arrangements are agreed is less than it once was.

Some independent schools may be able to, but not all. And they don’t have to.

Easier when the parents are already paying the fees though. So they are only asking to fund the support. That doesn’t cost more in independent compared to state. Also smaller class sizes are often necessary which can be evidenced with the right reports from a decent EP, SALT or OT.

The law doesn’t say they have to try anything, never mind everything. My child’s school had done nothing, but the needs assessment showed he needed the support. So I got the LA to back down and issue the EHCP and now he gets the support he needs.

I think independent schools can afford to fund 1-2-1 while waiting for an EHCP to issued, which provides the necessary funding for the staff required. I know these things aren’t easy or straight forward, I’ve been through the EHCP process. I was told there was no way my child would get an EHCP but he did, because I didn’t listen to the school & LA staff trying to put me off. I listened to the professionals who assessed my child and said he needed one.

I don’t understand what you mean. All EHCP’s name the school that the child attends and any EHCP that doesn’t have funding attached, is probably very poorly written and needs appealing to tribunal to make it specified and quantified. If a private school can’t meet needs because the provision needs funding then the EHCP needs to specify the provision, so that the LA have to fund it.

Remove them from the school.

It won't change.

It is not rare for an independent school to be named in section I of an EHCP, and thus the LA to be responsible for the fees and the SEP. It isn’t pedantic to point that out.

Many have to appeal, sometimes more than once, to secure an EHCP and that takes time, but where getting an EHCP takes longer than necessary because the LA thinks the statutory timescales don’t apply to them, as is often the case, parents can force LAs to act, via JR if necessary.

Not in my experience as no-one refers to them at all in independent schools unless there is a need for the attached LEA funding, which as I have stated several times, is rare unless the school as specialist provision supporting LEA funded students.

It is also a pedantic discussion that it utterly irrelevant to the OP’s situation. What is salient to the OP is that IF this child has SEN needs sufficient enough that they require specialist support and, consequently, the school is encouraging the family to secure an ECHP via the LEA - it will take a very long time to secure. In my experience and amongst my friends it can take several years.

@PeloMom is not required to wait until this other child has any such assessment (even assuming one is being sought) before being entitled to ascertain what measures are being put in place to safeguard her child or protect the educational provision they are being given. She can seek an appointment and answers now.

Running at a window with a brick intending to cause damage.
Running at a child with a fist intending to cause damage.

They're clearly similar to me.

Anyway, my point is that 1:1 support greatly reduces the chances of other children and adults and equipment being hurt. However it doesn't eliminate the risk.

E.g, Child sitting on the carpet with other children, adult sitting next to child as 1:1. Child unprovoked and without warning bites/punches/kicks. No triggers, no stopping.

It happens every day. There's no way of asking schools to remove the risk. It's impossible. Even if the children spends the day entirely alone with their 1:1, they will mix at lunch/assembly/break.

This is the reality of school life. Getting 1:1 support is a help but not a resolution. Schools need to do better and to do that they need way more funding.

The LA may try to act unlawfully, they often do, but that isn’t the law and parents don’t have to accept that. They can appeal. I support parents of DC secure EHCPs, including those an independent schools (and those who have never attend school or even nursery). You do not need to show the school has tried everything.

It will be the opposite.

Violent child in the class stays = lots of parents of his classmates change school as a result, the school lose lots of money.

Exclude violent child = only lose one lot of fees.

No but the LA will argue that the child's needs could be met in mainstream and they possibly could. Most independent schools don't have the budget to try interventions so they can't show that they have tried anything. You are unlikely to gey an ehc as a result. I used to help parents with ehc applications. Those at private school really struggled.

Exactly!! I got an EHCP for my child and his school at the time hadn’t tried anything because they didn’t accept he needed any support 🙄

I accept I only have experience of children with significant needs in early years, not into primary. I also accept staff need breaks etc, but that’s why I said the vast majority, not all. I do think schools should be arranging staffing so someone takes over though. Most private schools can afford it. Especially as a temporary thing while an EHCP is put in place. I have an EHCP for my own child. So I know it’s not a quick or simple process. I also know though, that schools try to make out they have to gather evidence and bla bla, but that’s not actually true. The evidence should come from the needs assessment primarily. That’s the whole point!
I don’t know what running at a window with a brick has to do with a child attacking another child. If the 1-2-1 is watching them as they should be though, then they should be able to step in before anything goes wrong, regardless of the triggers. I’ve been a 1-2-1 in early years and it’s been exhausting and poorly paid I agree, but it definitely works if you’re on the ball, you can intervene before they can attack anyone.

You don’t need to prove a school has tried everything to secure an EHCP. That is a myth LAs like to perpetuate.

Most independent schools have very little sen budget. Yes the LA can fund support but it is hard to prove that the school has tried everything because frankly they probably haven't and part of the reason is the lack of sen budget.

I know what EHCPs are for. My point was it isn’t correct to say they are “not of major significance in private school settings unless the school is a specialist school and is name specifically in an ECHP”.

They can be. Independent mainstream schools can be named in I and therefore the SEP in F and school fees funded. There are DC in independent MS who this applies to. It isn’t just independent SS.

ECHPs are not required in independent school settings, unless the ECHP names the school and the LEA funding comes attached to it. Ie. ECHPs are largely about allocating LEA funding, which enables most private schools to state that they are not a suitable setting for that child and refer them onto a specialist school where the actual provisions of the ECHP may be feasibly provided. Few of the independent schools near me have the facilities to support a child with SEN needs significant enough to warrant an ECHP. Not one child in my DC’s school had one, although approx 10% had SEN needs (dyslexia, ASD/ADHD).

I think most independent schools can afford a 1-2-1 while they wait for funding to be granted.

Most independent schools only provide full time 1:1 if the parents fund it or the LA does.

ECHPs are not of major significance in private school settings unless the school is a specialist school and is name specifically in an ECHP.

EHCPs can be just as significant in independent mainstream schools, and independent mainstream schools can also be named in an EHCP.

I have an 18year old with Autism ADHD and PDA
if my son had been hitting other children at the age of 4/5 I would have been mortified and I would have worked thoroughly with the school to safe guard not only my child but the other children as well
No it’s not ok for a child with or without Sen to attack another child.
In my case I have found my son does have additional needs but he could also just be badly behaved like other children without sen.
I think the op is perfectly in her right to worry about her child’s safety
She is asking what is a reasonable time for things to have been addressed and things put in place to keep her child safe
I’m sorry but that’s not a parent on a witch hunt to get a child excluded.

@FuckoffeeBeforeCoffee
If the school wants to continue without reinstating separate breaks and lunches, then it is the school's responsibility to provide adequate supervision to prevent further incidents.

One suggestion could be that the adults responsible for lunchtime supervision use a physical tag-in-tag-out system (like a wristband) - the person wearing that wristband is responsible for constant monitoring of the behaviour of this child who behaves physically/violently towards your child (and intervening before harm occurs).

[You might need to offer the suggestion as monitoring the behaviour of any children with violent tendencies towards your child - keeping the focus on safeguarding your child. ]

If they don't like that suggestion, push it back onto the school :

"Without isolating my child socially from his friends, or implementing any measures that could be seen as punishing him for the behaviour of others; what measures are you going to take to safeguard my child during breaks, lunches, and any other time during the school day (outside of the classroom) ?"

Sometimes.

The op mentioned the two children being part of the same friendship group which makes it harder as both children will want to play with their friends while also needing to be kept apart.

@Sherrystrull is it the same perpetrator attacking the same victim?

Independent schools are desperate to retain pupils due to the VAT issue and you might find that they are trying to accommodate this child as they don't want to lose an income source. They must think the rest of you will put up with it.