School issue - violent kid

Yes. The wonderful school. Who did their job in protecting other children and looking out for your son’s well being. If the school hadn’t stepped in appropriately and dealt with your child and allowed them to hurt my child then I would have kicked up an almighty storm regardless of how you felt in order to protect my child

Explain that you don't want to link him making valid complaint about being hit, with him being taken away from his circle of friends.

Explain that he has a great bond with his teacher- and given his ongoing disruption it's unfair for him to experience any more.

@FuckoffeeBeforeCoffee always best to have 2 people in meeting. Having partner there is good. Prepare for the meeting by writing down the questions. Keep it focussed on your child. It's not a counselling session so be pragmatic whilst explaining the impact of the current set up on your child.

Ensure separation. If 2 classes, do they do anything joint? If so, ensure they are split for this too. What are they going to do to bolster his confidence? Think about what would work for your son. Do the incidents also happen out of school hours? Eg on pick up? Could they be released at different times? Do they go to the same after school clubs?

Always follow up with notes. If they send anything to you you don't agree with, or need clarification on, follow up.

Ask for time lines. Next steps. Next meeting.

Thank you @Bushmillsbabe

Dad is coming with me because I'll just get upset and I want to be taken seriously.

You need to make it clear to them the emotional impact that this will have on your son if they move him, on top of what he has already endured, take it to the Governor's if needed, and don't worry if some are also parents, they have to keep it confidential.

Bring your child's Dad or someone else to support you if you can, and ask for a written summary of the meeting/write your own and email to the head after. I found that we seemed to get further when both of us went to meetings with the head, and when we created a written record. I think it showed just how seriously we were taking this, that we both took time off to meet in person, and that we were not going to let this rest. The head was actually very helpful, asked relevant questions around what we felt the impact on our child was, what actions school could put in place to help her feel safe again, which adults im school she trusted most to support her etc.

@Bushmillsbabe it is, and last year the boys were in different classes and we had no issues. I was so annoyed that the classes had been mixed again and they were back together. The second week of this year, my son was punched twice.

My ideal would be for them to be separated again but I'm worried they'll move my son as that'll be easier. His closest friends are in this class and he is absolutely thriving this year. He just clicks with his teacher so well.

Thank you to everyone who had given advice. I've written some of it down ready for the meeting.

OP - sorry for hijacking your thread. I was thinking about starting my own but was worried it was identifying!

If you don’t like people posting on the thread correcting incorrect information, don’t post incorrect information. Incorrect information makes parents advocating for their children harder. No-one is forcing you to reply. You don’t get to tell me where I can and can’t post.

If I was you I'd try and get in contact with parents of any other kids that have been targeted by the bully and approach the principal together.

"Either you sort this out or we're all taking our money elsewhere" should get the urgency across

Is your school at least 2 form entry? I asked for the other child to move class, it took time, but the pressure from several parents eventually made it happen. I know that's just transferring the challenge, but my priority was keeping my child safe.

And then they are the one getting in trouble for defending themselves. My daughter took having her hair pulled, being stabbed with a sharp pencil (drew blood), pinched under the table and numerous other injuries for weeks and weeks, after being told off for complaining. Until she snapped and pushed the other child away from her, this child makes a huge drama and pretends to fall on the floor, and I'm getting a phone call from the teacher saying they are concerned my child is becoming aggressive and 'is there anything going on at home to cause her to be so angry'.
That week she lost her breaktime and the other child got 'star of the week' for 'being so understanding of a classmates behaviour'.
I work in a SEN school, and understand the challenges, but when it comes to my child, I'm not allowing that as an excuse for my child being hurt daily. This child knew exactly what she was doing, she wasn't lashing out in anger/dysregulated, it was calculated bullying which the parents and school tried to excuse under the heading of SEN.

Plus...

Keep records of everything- from when it started- including any conversations you've had with the school.

I would be asking for specific actions they are going to take, with immediate effect, to keep your child from harm throughout his day.

I'd also consider removing your child until they can demonstrate the above.

100% this! ⬆️

No, I’m not wrong. My posts are based on the actual law. Your posts, on the other hand, are littered with inaccuracies about EHCPs. I mean, you can’t even get the name of EHCPs right. They are EHCPs, not ECHPs.

Despite what many LAs think, the law is the same whatever LA you live in. Parents need to know the actual law. Not the LAs unlawful policies and myths they would like parents to believe. The last people they should ask is their LA. LAs lie and give unlawful information all the time.

Parents do not need the school the support of the school to get an EHCP. Parents can make the request themselves. To have a wholly independent school named, they need the school to agreed to be named, but to get an EHCP parents do not need the school to be enthusiastic or actively support them. It is possible to get an EHCP without diagnosis and without multiple APDR cycles.

And, again, independent MS can and are named in EHCPs and funded. Just like wholly independent special/specialist schools can be named. Section 41 independents can also be named but the rules are different to naming wholly independents.

If the LA is in breach of the statutory timescales, as is often the case, parents can force the LA to act, via JR if necessary. Parents don’t have to accept LAs acting unlawfully.

Again, if parents have to appeal, need independent assessments, but can’t afford them, there are other options, e.g. legal aid or charity funding.

Parents do not need to spend £40k or anywhere near that to appeal. Some may choose to, but they don’t have to and never have.

But you are wrong - every LEA operates differently so anyone reading here who is affected needs to contact their local LEA to find out how it works, and ideally they need the enthusiastic/active support of their school, which is usually only forthcoming if the child has significant and acute needs. In my area of the 200k pupils in state schools, over 13.5K have ECHPs - the department that processes these have a backlog of over a thousand children many of whom have been waiting years. The only way to filter to the top of that queue is to obtain a private assessment and then to take the LEA to court - and it’s the parents who can fund this, whose children get the awards.

The WL to be seen by local CAMHS was 4 years to get an ASD assessment, and even longer for an ADHD assessment. And f course SEN can encompass many other issues outside ND issues. The local state school would not support us in obtaining an ECHP as they did not have the staff or resources to complete the paperwork or to liaise with the LEA, which was the case for nearly every person I know in my area. The ECHP would only flow from a diagnosis OR assessed educational need (which usually required the assessment) and the IEP we managed to get after a fight for my youngest was very tepid and in adequate. We gave up and went private - paying 3.5k for each child’s assessments in total. We then couldn’t afford to then go down the ECHP route for 2 children, but the local independent school had places, and were happy to take my children on because they were bright and had no behavioural issues. They stated that ECHPs were not needed because they did not take funded children and would work from the existing IEPs and work with the private Ed Psych teams.

EVERY single person I know who has obtained an ECHP has spent tens of thousands - it’s the only way to get it quickly rather than wait on the list for years to be resolved. The local MPs have been involved in advocates for many of the local parents on this issue.

My BF was told to expect to pay £39k to secure the expert council and expert testimony 10 years ago, the costs are higher today. They couldn’t afford it and no-one would help at the private school he was in by then because ECHPs relate to state funding, prioritise state school provision as a result, and there was no state school provision (hence she had moved him unsuccessfully into the private sector) and so she had no choice but to fund special school herself reliant on an IEP, and reports from ed psychs, speech therapists and OT (again, all obtained privately).

The HT and a parent of the school I mentioned previously (where BF’s child attended) were recently interviewed about precisely this issue a Radio4 programme in response to the impact VAT will have on private school fees. Our MP is fighting the government proposals because this cohort of private school parents is woefully misunderstood by the Labour government and many of them will be forced to pull their children out of the aforementioned school because they cannot get ECHPs quickly enough to get SEN places in the local state schools next year - where there is little to no SEN provision at the level required anyway (hence them being in this school)… so I know that I am not, as you say, incorrect at all.

And, I repeat, it is NOT relevant to the OP’s thread!!

OP, parent power is much higher at independent than in state. You need to watch out for the other parents the teacher is talking to and have a word with them. You should ALL state your concerns in writing to the school.
School will pay attention. Sounds like they're being proactive and that could be as they're bing goood or it could be them trying to minimise it.
When you write in keep it fact based and try and link the behaviour to policies.

It might not be relevant to the OP’s situation, but it may be important to someone else reading, which is why I commented.

It's time some parents whose little darlings bully and terrorise other children stopped hiding behind diagnoses and learned to parent properly and look at themselves and their examples.

Wish I’d never commented on it - it is irrelevant to the OP. As I have stated multiple times.

All that is relevant is that EVEN if the violent child concerned is subject to an ECHP application by its parents it is IRRELEVANT to her child who is entitled to be safeguarded and have their educational provision un-impacted. She is paying for a service and is entitled to make assert her rights both as a concerned parent and as a paying customer.

But scenario A can still happen in independent MS schools.

ECHPs are about the need for LEAs to provide additional funding for the provision that is recommended for an individual child subsequent to assessment and diagnosis.

A diagnosis is not required for an EHCP. EHCPs are about setting out a child’s needs and the SEP they reasonably require (and the placement they will attend). Funding is secondary to that whether in state or independent, MS or SS. Parents should focus on ensuring the SEP is detailed, specified and quantified in F rather than the funding because then it can be enforced.

So, for example, you could not decide your SEN child should attend Eton and expect a court to order in your favour or for Eton to agree to accept your child, if that makes sense?

Actually, you could. For a wholly independent school you would need an offer of a place, but if you had that it absolutely could be named in section I and if the LA refused parents could appeal to SENDIST. Some mainstream independent schools do agree to be named in I. It isn’t about them wanting to be seen as a SS or not. And parents absolutely can argue an independent MS is needed.

However there is one specialist school in my area that has 40% of its pupils funded by LEA ECHPs, up to the specified maximum threshold over which parents pay the top up (this depends upon the child/LEA/SEN report but can be up to and beyond £15k pa).

If the school is named in section I, the LA is responsible for funding the fees and all the SEP detailed, specified and quantified in F. Even in state MS schools, the school only has a best endeavours duty. Ultimately, under section 42 of the Children and Families Act 2014, it is the LA responsible for ensuring SEP is provided.

Parents don’t need to spend £40k to appeal to SENDIST. Representation for parents is not essential. Independent assessments are often necessary, their attendance at hearings less so. Where parents can’t afford independent assessments but aren’t eligible for legal aid, which can fund necessary independent assessments, there are charities who can help such as Parents in Need.

Yes - this was what I was getting at. And derailing the OPs thread!

Sorry of I have been unlcear: the confusion is over state v private schools (the OP’s child attends a private school).

ECHPs are about the need for LEAs to provide additional funding for the provision that is recommended for an individual child subsequent to assessment and diagnosis. Independent schools are not usually subject to these as they are not under the remit of the LEA - the LEA remit is over state schools, independent schools are precisely that - ‘independent’ of the local authority. Consequently (as I understand it) ECHPs are not enforceable against independent schools without their agreement. So, for example, you could not decide your SEN child should attend Eton and expect a court to order in your favour or for Eton to agree to accept your child, if that makes sense?

However there is one specialist school in my area that has 40% of its pupils funded by LEA ECHPs, up to the specified maximum threshold over which parents pay the top up (this depends upon the child/LEA/SEN report but can be up to and beyond £15k pa). Most of the families at this school have sought their ECHPs by taking the LEA to court (costing approximately £40k per application after barristers and expert witness reports and assessments, and multiple appeals) and arguing that the provision their child needs is not adequately provided within the state sector locally and that, thus, they should be funded to attend this specific school. This school actually works with parents and ed psych teams to help make this happen, but many parents cannot afford the costs of the ECHP appeal (ie £40k in one chunk), and simply don’t bother, opting instead to simply find the 15k pa fees, knowing that their diagnostic reports will be sufficient to get the them the support they need in the school, but not the LEA funding to go with it.

So, at my children’s school (which was next door), they were not a specialist school, so I had no case to argue that my DC’s should go there on these grounds (even though the small class sizes, SEN support team etc where perfect for my children), so no children at the school had ECHPs and nor was there any point in trying to secure one. Additionally the school would not have supported being named as the school to which I would have wanted the LEA funding to go to as it proactively does not seek to be known/recognised as a specialist school.

I am glad you understood. Reading my post back, it was terribly constructed. I should proofread and shouldn’t try to multitask.

Thanks, that makes sense.