Londoners not giving up seats on tube for pregnant women

I understand sarcasm very well thanks - which is why l didn’t recognise it in your posts.

I don’t actually believe you are disabled. Two reasons. Firstly If you were, you wouldn’t have posted as you did about the crutches because you would be aware of the offence you were causing to those who genuinely rely on disability aids, and the deep seated issues around perfectly able bodied people ‘faking it’ to take advantage of disability concessions and benefits.

Secondly. In this day and age there is respect for a wide range of diversity in society, which very often isn’t extended to disabled people. Sadly, some still think it’s fine to insult, berate and make fun of them. I called you out on something l found offensive as a disabled person. In response you ignored my point and went straight to berating, insulting, making fun and questioning my intelligence. So if you are genuinely disabled, which l doubt, you might want to think on how you treat your peers, because on this showing you haven’t exactly covered yourself in glory.

If someone is sitting in a priority seat, they should be aware of people getting on the tube who may need that seat.

But yes, ask people in priority seats to move for you.

Yesterday a young Asian man gave me his seat on the Tube again on a very crowded line. Don't know if he thought I was pregnant or just old! Anyway I took it.

Personally I dont care what the definition of disability is. I will give a seat to anyone struggling as long as I am able to stand.

Yes, as have I. I’ve never seen or had a problem. People are generally polite and courteous on London Transport.👍

Well, other than the mums who think a pushchair tops a wheelchair in a wheelchair bay on a bus. 🙄

This.

I pointed out in my post that I’m disabled myself. You clearly missed that because you suggested l’m the type of person who would use crutches in order to be seen as disabled. I’m not engaging with your nonsense posts any longer. I found your post offensive to disabled people for reasons l’ve explained. It wasn’t clear to me that you were being sarcastic, and still isn’t. I called you out on what l consider to be ableism and your response was to insult.

I get the tube for 40 minutes twice a day, 5 days a week and regularly see people offering their seats to pregnant women and the elderly. You must be an anomaly or making yourself too inconspicuous.

You assumed I meant use crutches in pregnancy literally, so why not assume I'm not disabled? Sounds like we have a queen/king/non binary (don't want to give you another reason to assume that I assumed your gender and get offended at that) royalty of assumptions here.
Ever crossed your mind that crutches moved onto something more severe? Oh no you just assume I'm able bodied and then try to start a fight over very obvious sarcasm.
Why do you assume I know a term that's often used on mumsnet? Maybe that term triggered me, because I can't bloody jog?

You cannot understand sarcasm, that's okay, there's many different people out there. However, you're literally begging for an argument. And then you're making assumptions and triggering my lack of ability to jog. How mean.

Idk, why would you think that's a serious suggestion? Dying for an argument it seems then.

It does not matter if it does not meet the definition of a disability. Someone on crutches due to a broken foot would not meet the definition either, but I would hope no one would give them shit for sitting in a priority seat.

I've been thinking about this, and come to the conclusion OP that you should just ask for a seat, and asking is OK, I don't understand why you would be hung up on that. It's also OK, if the person already in the seat has a disability etc, for them to tell you that. Why can't we just talk to each other out in society?

I am quite vocal if I see e.g. a bunch of youngsters sitting while a person who looks elderly and frail stands, but it has to be extreme case.

When I was pregnant in Amsterdam, it felt like people from an Middle Eastern or Turkish background were much more alert to standing up, same with helping with buggies up stairs, and the Dutch a lot more 'oh get on with it' or just blasé. But this is a sample of one.

Bystander syndrome. You were helping him, so no one else thought they needed to.

I got off the train at my stop the other week and an old man got on and fell to his knees. I jumped back on to try to help him up but he was heavy and I couldn’t help him and no one moved a muscle, just watched us - until I asked for someone to help us out. I was surprised

Didn’t assume anything. You didn’t say you were disabled, you said ‘when l had crutches’. And ‘jog on’ is a term often used on MN - not usually taken literallly, but then you knew that.

Why would l consider using crutches when l’m already in a wheelchair ?

Pregnancy isn't a disability. I wouldn't generally notice an adult wearing a badge. Why can't people just use their words like big girls and boys instead of wearing a badge like a five-year old.

Not to mention, how YOU pick up what I say is a YOU problem not a me problem. I KNOW what and HOW I meant it. Just wow. What sane person would actually use crutches when pregnant to get a seat instead of just being vocal? Maybe you see that as a genuine option because it's something you'd consider? Usually those who'd do the crime, see the crime 🤔

How do you know I can actually jog?!!?!??! WHY DO YOU THINK I WAS USING CRUTCHES? Did you ASSUME that I don't have a disability?! Wow.

I've got an invisible disability and a badge and if I was asked by someone pregnant to give up a seat I would say no, and explain why, but say sorry. I wouldn't feel obliged to stand, and I don't know why you think I would. My disability is very real... I wish it wasn't! I regularly have to ask for a seat - even with my badge (I think people don't notice tbf), and most people are alright, but you get the odd arsehole. I don't really have an option though. You just need to bite the bullet and ask.

sorry this is happening :( this society is way to individualistic it’s such a shame we’ve completely lost any sense of community

Didn’t come across as sarcasm. And even if it had, speaking as a disabled person myself and having worked as a disability outreach worker for over twenty years, I would still have found it offensive. People are mindful and respectful of so many issues these days - gender ID, using correct pronouns and a host of other issues. But it seems it’s still OK to offend the disabled. Take your smiley face and jog on.

Not saying anyone is claiming they’re permanently disabled. At all. You were the one who said you had issues with the Equality Act, and I can only assume that’s because you don’t understand the purpose of it. The point is that the Equality Act defines disability and enshrines it in law. Disabled people have fought long and hard for that. The definition is that a health condition has to be significant enough in its’ impact on everyday life and has to last longer than twelve months to be considered a disability. So in spite of the fact that many non pregnancy related conditions don’t qualify as a disability because they don’t meet the criteria, you’re suggesting that we should just bypass that for pregnancy related ones.

The Equality Act confers similar levels of protection for pregnant women - they have protected characteristics which again, are enshrined in law, and when you muddy the waters you end up with entitlement at the level of a poster upthread who advised that all pregnant women should obtain crutches so they can get a seat on the tube. If you can’t see how unreasonable (not to mention offensive) that is, I can’t help you. If you want to give up your seat on the tube, or any other place, or offer other courtesies or concessions to pregnant women that’s fine - laudable in fact. I applaud it. But pregnancy is a choice, disability is not. Let’s not conflate the two.

Normal people don't look up random bits of legislation when they're using common language, and anyway the point is that women who are pregnant are less able to do things (like stand up for ages on the tube) than they are when they're not pregnant, so we should help them out. This is how normal people understand the term. No-one is claiming that they're somehow permanently disabled. Why are we arguing about this?

That’s great. It must mean it’s very unusual, but just because you’ve not seen people being rude doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen.

I’ve been pregnant for about 23 months of my life so far, have similar tube usage to you, and have had “only” had two bad experiences whilst asking for a seat. Neither of these happened in a parallel universe

I wouldn’t count having to ask for a seat as a bad experience, though - like others have said, that’s pretty common as commuters tend to be zoned out or staring at the floor. If asked, the vast majority of people are very obliging.