To think this attack on London Jewish schoolchildren should have been headline news

Daily Mail is now reporting. I would suggest that the JC got the sorry first as it is mostly likely closer to the issue and other outlets have started to pick it up.

Deflection isn’t necessarily going to road to being right.

Good point. However bad it is to throw things and shout at kids on a his, it is worse because the ‘thugs’ went onto the bus and threw things and shouted.

No matter who the children (because they are children) this kind of abuse is unacceptable. We live in a democratic country and I for one will always stand up against any kind of discrimination or abuse (and have).

What happened to these Jewish children is abhorrent. The deflection and desire to minimise by other continent conflicts which have no direct responsibility of children in the UK is the definition of disgusting.

i seriously worry about those who in any way try to justify by deflection or ridiculous responsibility placement.

Paddymcpaddy · Today 12:24
I expect it’s got nothing to do with national policy, and more the fact that it may have been nothing much more than a spat between 2 rival schools - despite the language used

Getting on a school bus of kids from a Jewish school and yelling “F Israel”, then getting on the bus to carry on shouting antisemitic insults, is nothing to do with rivalry. It’s antisemitic hate crime. If someone hurled rocks at a school bus of kids from an Islamic school and yelled ‘F Palestine’ , then got on the bus and continued making Islamophobic insults, that would be Islamophobic hate crime. Let’s just stop downplaying it because it happened to Jewish kids, and call it what it was.

Some people will go to ridiculous lengths to deny antisemitism. People shouted "Fuck Israel" and attacked her because they were simply children from a rival school, can't possibly be antisemitic scumbags. I'm sure the reason Jewish schools have so much security is because other schools might spat with them.

It was mainstream news. You have posted from a mainstream outlet.

I expect it’s got nothing to do with national policy, and more the fact that it may have been nothing much more than a spat between 2 rival schools - despite the language used.

Once an investigation has been undertaken the facts will come out, and if it was a hate crime then the culprits will be dealt with. Buses have excellent CCTV, the children will all be identifiable by school uniform.

Right now the only actual report of via the JC which is hardly an unbiased outlet.

If the facts are proved I think they should be treated just as severely and publicly as the Southport related rioters (which was not very punitively in the cases of children), and for the same reasons. But there is definitely a school of thought that says anti-semitic incidents should not be publicised too much to avoid copycat attacks. I expect there is a national policy on this, and the Jewish community has an input into that policy. So people who think it is the wrong policy to downplay such things need to say so to community leaders.

As the ‘scumbags’
were children, and the facts have yet to be established I think that highly unlikely.

Hopefully the scumbags get locked up.

I hope everything is going well for you. Have a lovely weekend.

I take it that means that you have no evidence to justify your unpleasant assertion, but don’t have the honesty or decency to say so.

<<Yawn>>

On what exactly do you base your opinion that anything in this thread showed "the hierarchical nature of the comparison"?

Do tell me if I am wrong but I can’t see anything remotely suggesting that. In the absence of any such evidence, it would seem to be something you are imputing to others on the basis of simply your own wish to perceive them as racists. Nice.

For you @Comedycook and @Socrateswasrightaboutvoting

I just had an interesting thought: I wondered what ChatGPT would say in answer to the question "Is it racist to believe that antisemitism sometimes comes from a different demographic than other forms of racism?"

Lo and behold, look what it said (I have put some important points in bold):

Believing that antisemitism sometimes comes from different demographics than other forms of racism is not inherently racist. In fact, it can be a legitimate observation rooted in the distinct historical and social dynamics of antisemitism.
^^
Antisemitism has a long and complex history, and it often manifests in particular ways that differ from other forms of racism. For example, it may stem from both traditional religious prejudice and modern political or ideological sources, and it has been historically perpetuated by different groups at different times (e.g., European Christian societies, various political ideologies, and even contemporary far-right and far-left movements). As a result, some people argue that antisemitism has unique features that make it different from other racial prejudices.
^^
However, it’s important to approach this distinction carefully. Acknowledging that antisemitism can come from different sources or demographics does not justify or minimize the severity of racism in general, nor does it imply that any particular group is more or less racist than others. It should be framed within the context of a broader commitment to combating all forms of racism and discrimination.
^^
In short, recognizing that antisemitism may come from specific demographics doesn’t itself constitute racism, but it’s essential to ensure the conversation is respectful, avoids stereotypes, and remains focused on addressing all forms of bigotry.

Well well well!

As I have not seen anyone on this thread try to justify or minimise the severity of racism in general, or imply that any particular group is more or less racist than others, or use stereotypes etc., that seems to settle the issue, doesn’t it (for anyone thinking ChatGPT is the ultimate arbiter, anyway)?

@Socrateswasrightaboutvoting : do you agree?

The hierarchical nature of the comparison IS indefensible IMO as a Black woman. Context is everything.

All you have done is double down on who you are. Nice.

The way in which you made the comparison could and was interpreted by me, a Black woman, to be offensive. I explained the reason why. (Well allowed Chat GPT to) It summed up the essence of what I was thinking and I stand by it.

I think it was my post where I said anti semetism often comes from a different demographic of people than some other types of racism. At no point did I say that anti semetism is worse than other kinds of racism. I would actually never say that. I'm a secular non practising Jew with mixed race DC...I'm sure you can imagine I'm concerned about all types of racism equally. I am well aware that as a white British secular woman that affords me some protection from anti semetism. No one knows my Jewish heritage unless I actually tell them... although this has meant in the past I have heard people express some vile view on Jewish people assuming that I'm not and will nod along.

I was responding to a poster who described her area as very liberal and diverse who said it would probably be very welcoming to Jewish people. I was making the point that actually often anti semetism comes from people who are on the left, liberal types. I am honestly baffled as to how that was interpreted as me saying that Jewish people have it worse. I was just saying that for Jewish people living in areas like that may not necessarily be the answer.

Thanks to the poster who defended my point....wow, some of you were up early/late depending on how you see it!

You.

i see, on checking to find out what on earth my "deliberate misquote" might be, that I did accidentally misquote you re your statement that "It's staggering that you can't see the issue with someone talking about antisemitism whilst unnecessarily bringing other races into it and minimising their oppression". So sorry, though I fail to see how it makes much difference. I absolutely do not see or accept that discussing sources of different manifestations of racism "minimises the oppression" of anyone.

The interesting point in your response is the "IMO" in "You came in defense of (IMO) the indefensible". You think it’s "indefensible" to say that "antisemitism comes from a different demographic to other forms of racism", I don’t. You think it is somehow racist. Yet in your defence of the ChatGPT words "might" and "could" you even actually said yourself that that is how the comment read to you, but "Another Black woman might see it in a different way". Yes. It’s called differing opinions. You have one opinion and I have another. That is the O in your "IMO". The "other Black woman" might even agree with me, for all you know.

I do not accept that you are the arbiter of whether Jews or others opposed to antisemitism are at liberty to talk about what they perceive as the differing demographics of purveyors of different brands of racism, without being accused of being racists or racist enablers themselves. You are a Black woman who considers it racially offensive. I am a Jewish woman who considers that it isn’t.

This whole issue of different forms of racism somehow being in competition with each other to claim the title of "worst" is utterly ridiculous.

So other than my accidental misquote, my last comment stands.

Well it’s my break from chemo so I have to get everything done whilst I feel up to it. Plus family coming down at the weekend so I have to make some effort.

today I went to my hairdresser who’s Jewish as is the whole salon then my reflexologist also Jewish and tomorrow I’ll be getting my nails done

Busy busy busy 😂 Oh to live such a life.

I hope the children are okay - what an awful experience for them.

But I voted Yabu because media coverage would be playing into the hands of the people who did this - it would make them feel important and give them the attention they so want...which is probably why the vile rag that is the DM has run the story

Please! This whole exchange started because of a comment of with that exact tone which the original poster then doubled down on. I elaborated on why that comment was offensive and why it could be offensive to others. You came in defense of (IMO) the indefensible, with your powder coated barbs to dismiss the views of a Black woman as to why something was racially offensive. Now you are back deliberately misquoting me whilst making demands and threats. Who is the dramatic one?

I live where this incident happened. It’s just vile behaviour and not surprising sadly. I hope they have caught the animals that did this. I have so many Jewish people in my day to day life. Locally today I went to my hairdresser who’s Jewish as is the whole salon then my reflexologist also Jewish and tomorrow I’ll be getting my nails done in the Orthodox part of my area and, you know what I will put the world to rights with whoever is in there and have a right good gossip as well. It’s heartbreaking this is happening because at the end of the day we are all just people doing our best to live a peaceful healthy life. It’s really upsetting these are my neighbours and work mates. They just happen to be Jewish. It’s heartbreaking.

Yes, it is "possible to disagree without being racist". Shame not everyone on this thread seems to understand that.

If people suffer anti-semitism at left wing meetings (I won't bother mentioning that Trotskyists are objectively class traitors) then this isn't a different demographic at all, it is firmly in the demographic of moronic racists.

If the Jewish people being criticised are supporting Israeli government policy then it may or may not be anti-semitism depending how stupid the people at the meeting are. It is possible to disagree without being racist, not all achieve it.

Edit: it is also quite possible to support Israeli government policy without being Jewish, a fact people sometimes forget.