To think higher education isn’t a right for everyone?

I'm fairly sure plenty of young people are now opting out of going to university in preference of apprenticeship routes.
Why do you think otherwise?

Not really. Degree level apprenticeships are not widely available and they are highly competitive.
Also, not all schools are great at promoting vocational options. Higher education is still often promoted as the preferred option.

I'm fairly sure plenty of young people are now opting out of going to university in preference of apprenticeship routes.

Why do you think otherwise?

Everyone should have the opportunity to access higher education, if they are suitable qualified (e.g. academically or through experience or whatever) to be accepted onto a given course.

The issue is that for many people that opportunity simply isn't there.

The problem is that it isn't a level playing field even for those who have the academic potential. I believe every young person should have the right to be able to consider if higher education is right for them - but many factors other than academic ability affect this.

I wondered how long it would before the term 'mickey mouse degree' appeared.

I think this might be a record.

Can you define what you consider to be a Mickey Mouse degree

It's important that both are promoted equally.

University isn't for everyone but neither is vocational education. people should be supported to make choices that suit them as an individual.

Teacher training in particular wasn't a degree, and that's where about half our pupils went to, basically the ones that weren't likely to get the grades required for uni.

You are right - it was both; "tertiary education" and not all would have been university (leading to a degree).

I agree - the figure in the 70s/80s was more like 7% and that often included both teacher training (the certificate rather than the degree) and non honours applied degrees at polys/higher ed and sometimes it included HNDs.

Purely honours degree courses at universities and polys offering them was often less than the 7% and those who went were heavily skewed toward private and middle class schools.

I work in industry and have close links to higher education and roles that are professionally regulated.

Things are changing with the value of vocational training heightening. School leavers of today, tomorrow and in a decades time have different expectations and desires about learning. There is set to be a rise of on the job (pay as you learn) training and education embedded in practice. Workplaces are needing to prepare now for this and a massive amount of time and energy is being invested in the development of new routes into many regulated professions.

Who is saying it’s a ‘right’? You still need to meet the requirements for a course, quite apart from anything else.

I don't think people think uni is a right, rather it's a privilege for those who want to and can. But it's also not the only route, there are degree apprenticeships and other on-the-job training schemes which are also a privilege.

Is the 1970 figure university only or university plus teacher training?

14% seems high. In my area grammar school took 10% of county kids and 30% of city kids, so say an average of 20%. Two thirds would go into 6th form, and half of those would go to uni. So that's about 7%. Secondary modern kids didn't go to uni.

Vocational training is a form of higher education, no?

Most people study useless Mickey Mouse degrees? Who knew!

Who's pushing who?

I never pushed any of mine. 2 have degrees. 2 don't. All doing well other than 1 is disabled and current can't use her degree.

You are not wrong OP. Too many people have been led to believe that a ‘Mickey Mouse’ degree is better than no degree. People are trigger by the term, but it’s apt to describe the useless degrees that most people study.

Wrong thread. Sorry!

As others have said, there's more to higher education than university degrees.

Higher education isn't right for everyone but access to higher education absolutely should be a right for everyone. Your OP seems to confuse the two.

It was 14% in 1970.
It was 20% in 1995 - pre Blair - not 7%!

I am always very suspicious of posters who start this sort of thread without expressing their own views.

Me too. Signals lazy journo or AI

45 years ago only 14% of the UK school leavers went on to University. You could come out with a degree in the social sciences, arts or humanities and still get a very good job. Many organisations employed graduates to fast-track into their middle management level. The 4 retail banks alone employed a 1000 new graduates a year to feed into their branch network. It didn't matter what subject you read, all that mattered is that you had a degree so you could apply for one of these "graduate calibre" roles (that was the euphemism that was used in the adverts that signalled that only graduates need apply).

These days, all the above is history. Nearly 3 times as many school leavers school go on to university without thinking if their choice of degree will actually help them in the workplace. What you need now to get a good job is relevant work experience or relevant skills. Unless a degree course provides this I don't think they represent value for money. Universities stress that overall average graduate salaries are still 1/3 higher than those without. The key words here being overall average, I think you will find that graduate salaries are heavily skewed towards STEM outstripping social sciences, arts and humanities.

To those who don't want to go to University, then that's probably all for the good. A good vocational role (making sure it's future proof) probably has greater earning potential than most graduates without the burden of the student debt.

As a Yr11 and 6th form teacher I'd say the tide is turning towards a real push to vocational work. With T-Levels and a vast suite of new Level 4+ apprenticeships, many students don't feel as keen on university anymore. In a recent network meeting, two of our local unis were saying they've experienced a massive drop in numbers.

It isn't a right. No one is entitled to a place at university or any other form of post-18 education, academic or vocational.

My brother and sister went and loved their independence. It didn't suit me and I got on well with Mum and Dad so I got a job instead .Mum did the cooking and she was a splendid cook. I really liked knowing that my parents were on hand.