To wonder why some people are more popular than others?

Me too. I really don't want a friend who is slavishly devoted to me and runs around after me, to be honest. If anything that would make me actively dislike them because it's a bit cringe.

I want a friend who shares my interests and sense of humour, who is chilled and open minded.

Same as the reason that so many people are in toxic relationships. We are often drawn to people like this because the uncertainty is exciting. When they are then nice to you, it gives an adrenaline rush. Other more consistent relationships can seem boring in comparison.

Absolutely “would do anything for anyone” is not a quality I want in a friend. Sparky /interesting /fun / like minded / initiates fun stuff /soneone I click with that’s what most people are looking for in a friend.

They have to learn early life is not “fair”. You don’t put in dutiful kindness then get automatically rewarded by the friendship of others. Many adults don’t seem to have realised this either.

I agree with your two posts, @anxioussister -- there's a real tendency on Mn, which has more than its fair share of posters who struggle socially, to demonise the socially-confident for just going about their business, and not dedicating themselves to 'including' random people they may barely know.

And yes, @TheYearOfSmallThings, you see that all the time on here. People saying 'Why don't people like me? I run around after other people all the time, I'd do anything for anyone, so why am I always left out?' Speaking for myself, I'm not interested in your capacity to provide services, I don't need you to rescue me or lend me money, I'm primarily interested in whether I find you good company. Which has nothing to do with your loyalty or kindness.

Depends. Not always. But the OP is asking how a child who is not nice is popular. I'm saying that this is often how that happens and how despite them breaking all the rules we teach our children about kindness etc, they are social winners.

Sad to say I don’t think people particularly value being kind (certainly not as children). As pp said I think it has more to do with how you interact with others - coming across as friendly, charismatic, entertaining, charming or something else along those lines.

My ds20 was always very popular and still is. I’m not sure what it is about him but he’s extremely likeable.
Anyway this is a true story…A mother once phoned me and told me she was sick to death of her kids talking about my ds. She said ‘It’s Charlie this and Charlie that and I’m fucking sick of it!’
I was absolutely gobsmacked 😶

Is it gatekeeping though? Or is it just an unwillingness to commit all their time and energy to helping less confident people ‘fit in’ - for sure it sucks not to feel like you’re part of a particular gang - but as long as they’re not being actively hostile I’m not sure criticism is really founded on anything…

Social dominance is a skill, whether we like it or not. It goes hand in hand with confidence, assertiveness, a willingness to be central and to lead. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with kindness, generosity, thoughtfulness, loyalty or any of the other qualities we consciously encourage.

A child who is socially dominant can be popular and hold a lot of social power without being especially liked by children or other parents.

I agree. I’d go so far as to say it’s an ‘entry level’ friend requirement rather than a notable one!

I do get frustrated when people are quick to write off busy / socially engaged people as ‘unkind’ just because they don’t have space to focus on everyone!

They are not necessarily popular as in well liked. What they have is social power. A lot of things contribute to acquiring this. Typically having something aspirational about you - good looks, good at sport, have cool parties, and as adults, wealthy, influential. This enables them to attract a core group of 'elite' that others want to be part of. Then there is the ability gatekeep what others want, so membership of the charmed circle with the party invitations, the access to friendship groups and so on.

I think most people are fairly kind, regardless of their popularity or lack of it. I don't think it's a significant factor in contributing to popularity because it's pretty common.

I think there's learned charisma if that makes sense?

So basically what everyone else has been saying!

IME this lasts through primary then they get into the itchy cliques at secondary. The really nice ones will be popular in good schools. Friends through fear is never a great idea as its not really respect but a lot of insecure people stuck together making each other feel bad.

Charisma and perception I guess.

Some people/kids are blessed with charisma and don't always use it kindly. Once children sense that THIS is the child they need to stay on the right side of, it all goes from there.

You cannot fake charisma.

DD1 has always been very popular, always invited everywhere by everyone. Ironic, because she's totally nonchalant about her popularity and isn't especially bothered about pleasing anyone....and hence why she is so popular because people tend to value what they can't quite get. You have to work hard to spike DD1's interest and her approval is hard won, she is self willed and audacious. Yet, she's fiercely loyal and generous to those she loves. She often reminds me of Beth from Yellowstone!

In contrast, DD2 has always been a people pleaser, over eager to fit in and be liked. She is very malleable and sensitive. Consequently, people don't value her attention or friendship as much because it's so freely given. DD2 is very kind, generous and has a strong moral compass but these lovely qualities aren't as strong a social currency as DD1's.

I don't know how this applies to small children, but I've noticed that many charismatic people are just good con men. And it's surprising how many people fall for the con and defend the conman to the end, even though it's obvious he's lying and taking advantage of them. That is, many people prefer fake nice people over genuinely nice people.

I think it’s a status thing too, I think on some level most humans know on a deep level that they require acceptance into the group to survive. So when someone doesn’t like us it hits a panic button, especially if we believe that person has status because their liking or not liking us can affect our own status. I think it wears off a bit as they get older (or it should) because our world is a bit different to tribal communities but I think we are geared to look for social approval.

Charisma gives you a lot of power over others. I think children want to be where the interesting stuff is going on and that is around these type of children. They don’t necessarily like them, they just want to be in on the action. Children are like adults in that they don’t always want kind and nice, they also want excitement and drama.

If you place a rat in a cage with a button that gives them food when they press it, the rats will press it only when they are hungry. If it does nothing when they press it, they stop pressing it.

If it gives food only sometimes, they start frantically pressing the button over and over even when they are not hungry. The on-off nature of the result drives an addictive behaviour towards pushing it.

The same behaviour is seen in humans too - it's partly behind why gambling is so addictive - sometimes winning and sometimes losing is far more compelling than winning all the time or losing all the time.

Children want to be liked and love getting attention. A child like this who is sometimes nice and sometimes nasty can easily trigger the above behaviour - trying over and over again to see if you get the good reaction this time. It's also seen in children trying to get attention from parents ignoring them.