The older we get, the more conservative we become?

Hasn’t come to me. I’d rather eat my own liver than vote for Badenoch.

No I don't think Boris is very popular as people can see he lied particularly over policies like immigration. I don't think people like Starmers lies either. People would like honesty regardless of party.

Yes @anchorage Tories didn't do any if the things I said , they certainly don't support families or women!

I was never Tory.

now I’m voting Kemi next election.

comes to us all.

Boris

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2024/sep/29/maternity-pay-is-excessive-says-tory-leadership-hopeful-kemi-badenoch

I think I’m probably the only one in my family moving rightwards with age - I’m glad we have a Labour govt but I didn’t vote for them, I believe that the ‘left’ is moving further away from its economic and class roots and further towards identity politics (in the US mould) much of which - especially trans issues - is deeply individualistic and very capitalist. i abhor the left’s view of itself as holy and righteous and the tribalism, virtue signalling and purity spirals across the political spectrum. I get increasingly frustrated with the way some lefties of my acquaintance seem to think other people/the state should pay for things - its always someone a little bit richer than them who should pay more tax, etc. I would perhaps say I’m a pragmatist of some sort?

I am pretty traditional in lots of small ways such as appreciating a lot of cultural traditions, the church (I have never liked Welby and I do have deep doubts about the CofE), not minding having a monarchy, believing that to some extent, with the best will in the world ‘the poor are always with us’. I wish there were more efficient ways of supporting those who need it, as well as letting some people hit rock bottom because that’s what they need. Of course there is no very practical way of achieving that! I wish life was fairer and wealth not so concentrated but ‘twas ever thus, unfortunately.

Yeah, I feel a bit sorry for Labour at the moment, trying to recover from Corbynism without alienating too many of its members, both generally and within the party. It's never represented all of my values but I share the general feeling that it seems a bit formless just now.

I'd rather have this government than the alternatives we were offered! They've got a massive task to repair the damage done by 14 years of Tory misrule - looking back over history, this has usually been Labour's mandate and they've usually done a good job. It often strikes me that Labour must have an awful public relations team, certainly compared to the Tories.

The UK Communists and Reform are opposed to genderism. Commies because of women's rights; I don't bother reading Reform literature but they say the party has no position on social issues (!)

Strong family - in this country married families are discriminated against and not valued and we consequently have the worst family breakdown in Europe. All research shows married partners who stay together provide the best outcomes irrespective of family income. So I believe one partner should be supported through tax system to stay at home for first few years as happens in Germany and other countries. The state will never care for children as much as their parents so a poor substitute. This is putting children first. The parent who stayed at home can then be supported to re enter the job market once child at school.
Labour hasn't banned private schools, they've just penalised struggling middle class children whilst allowing children at Eton etc to carry on -VAT won't affect them at all (or the Labour mps who send their children to private schools). I would respect them much more if the just banned all private schools.

Of course not, don't be silly! That's socialism!

That is a good reply @Garlicwest though I don't agree with all of it. I'm interested as to what you mean by far left and far right particularly regarding genderism. Starmer in particular seems to use far right as anyone who disagrees with him or objects to no limit on immigration. Far left and woke used interchangeably.

What does ‘strong family’ mean? In what way do you ‘put children first’? By providing high-quality, heavily-subsidised universal childcare so that women aren’t disproportionately excluded from these good jobs? Banning private schools and ploughing money into state schools so that all children get the same, high-quality start?

Possibly. But also Labour makes little sense now, trying to pull in everyone and their dog under the same umbrella - environmentalists, socialists, all sorts of liberals, lgbtq+, general wokeists and the overall lunatic fringe. It gets harder and harder to relate. If I’m gay it doesn’t mean I necessarily want to drive an electric car (hybrids make much more sense), and if I do - it doesn’t mean I support the tax raids.

@Menopausalsourpuss, left means something different to Americans. It's kind of a catch-all for liberal values, while right is more like hard-line traditionalism. The division is starker than in Europe; more like our 'far left' and 'far right' I suppose. Both sides in the US are more religious and more capitalist than we are.

There are ideological differences between our left and right, of course, but they're softer and more flexible. The significant question, for us, is how much responsibility we - via the state - have to the society we live in. That leads to a more fundamental question about whether we believe capital is benign enough to take care of it for us (via trickle-down) or we should take charge of it by giving money to a government, which we must trust to use it wisely.

The thing about genderism being 'leftist' is a weird one. That characterisation comes from the USA but our Labour Party seems to have adopted it as such. I don't think this would've happened without the internet bringing us so many unfiltered American concepts. As it goes, however, none of our parties are opposed to it except the far right AND the far left.

Starmer?

People on here seem to equate being left wing as being really caring and compassionate and right wing as worshipping money and treating poor people like scum. I don't see it like that at all, I am small c conservative (not Tory) which some works see as right wing and I believe in strong family, putting children first, giving people a good job to do and being tough on crime as this gives the best outcomes. I care about the environment as part of this. I think left wing politics ends up with very selfish people who think they should be allowed to do what they want - soft on crime and drugs, letting them do what they like.

I also have experience growing up under communism. I think people have some really funny ideas about socialism/communism being about idle people being supported by the state. Do you know that it was illegal not to work under communism? You were put in prison and, in many cases, forced into slave labour if you refused to work.

Also - in East Germany at any rate - children being removed from families who tried to escape, and the state telling them the children had died when in fact they’d been adopted.
Yet there are posters on this thread supporting communism.

I have found that my beliefs are much less entrenched than they were when I was younger. A mixture of realising that most issues are nuanced rather than binary, and developing the confidence to realise that changing my opinions on things is not a a failing, rather it can sometimes be a good thing.

I have gone the other way and feel a lot more empathy and am far more left leaning than I used to be.I work in a multicultural setting with young people and it's really opened my eyes to how unfair the right wing are.

Disagree. I have become more empathetic and can really see how difficult it is for people to improve their lives .
If they are unfortunate enough to need UC help, it is very hard for people to get out of the rut they are in .
MH is a massive problem and it's only going to get worse!

Jesus, if anything I’m the opposite! Turning into a right old save the planet, you can’t eat money, educate the masses, get rid of private schools, and billionaires, etc hippy!

@Garlicwest I totally agree - my H hated Rio by the way - he went as tour manager with a band and the very first day the driver just skirted around a dead favella child in the middle of the road - and just said 'they are just scum' - my H was horrified and incredibly upset - the hotel told him not to walk to the nearest shop as it was 'too risky' Guys on hotel doors with guns- he hated a lot of the south east of USA too

That makes sense, but not sure that the person I asked the question of feels the same.

Nope, still not clear enough. What do you class as 'free to do what they like', and what is 'the effect on society'?

I agree with you that there are too many people who think making money trumps everything though. But that's not a right wing point of view at all.

The most chaotic places are often run by the left. In America it is liberal/left places like SF, California in general, Portland Seattle that are disordered with drugs everywhere, homeless and crime and very dirty. The more ordered places (and where the rich from those other places are fleeing to) are run by the Republicans. The left tend to be soft on crime (defending the police) and drugs. All of the self-described socialists I have ever met were very wealthy and could escape the problems they create (and never gave away their own money) whereas poorer people tend to live in the real world and are often conservative (with a small not the Tory scum we have now). I was vrought up on a rough council estate and been small c conservative my whole life.