Elderly FIL and blood test

Patient centred care is what we all strive for.
But…there is a lack of time and resources to make it happen sadly.
NHS staff aren’t purposefully obstructive but we genuinely do not have the means to be patient centred with absolutely everyone.

I totally get that it’s shit that he had a wasted journey and had to wait for another test but this is the reality of the NHS nowadays. I both work in it and am a patient and I too, get totally frustrated by the systems.

But please don’t blame the staff for not being patient centred. Because if we delivered care like that every day then there just wouldn’t be enough time and people would be moaning about waiting 2 hours for a blood test.

Yes. When the OP's FIL goes back to his GP to re-start the process of getting a blood test booked, the GP could just say "Bugger this - I'll take the bloods myself and we'll have the results by Friday". No forms to forget. No uncomfortable 2-hour round trip. No need for the OP to take time off work to take FIL to an blood centre miles away from where he lives. No risk of anything getting misunderstood..... otherwise known as Patient-centric healthcare.

Ha, x-post @C8H10N4O2. I totally agree with you:

I’m laughing at all the outrage about nhs IT systems, even though it’s not actually funny. But this is what nhs workers have to deal with every day.

You can't expect Joe and Jane Public to know how the NHS works though. I also don't think expecting your notes from one appointment to be linked to another (relevant) appointment is remotely outrageous - it should be the absolute bare minimum that the person doing your bloods knows what they're checking before your appointment and why!

The fact that the NHS expect people to bring pieces of paper with them (that they probably received in an appointment weeks or months ago) is just insane - and I have to wonder how many appointments are wasted because of it.

Obviously none of that is the fault of the staff but you can totally see why the it pisses people off - it makes absolutely no sense!

Absolutely normal. They need the request form to know how much to rake and what tests to run.

The point is that an 86 year old having blood tests for cancer did not fully understand the kafkaesque myriad of systems for test, bookings, appointments and he shouldn't have to. Its the antithesis of a patient centric approach (at least for more vulnerable patients).

Why are you "surprised" that joe public doesn't realise that the NHS subdivisions choose to stick with business processes and systems which looked dated 30 years ago? Its utter insanity and its nothing to do with money or governments

How much do you know about the back end systems in Tesco or Barclays bank?

Governments of different complexions have spent many, many billions trying to achieve both the longitudinal record (the centralised system for all historical health records) and "open data" systems (ie whatever systems are used for managing on going health data it can be shared with other relevant medical practitioners).

Both these approaches to data management are normal in any kind of large business and in most modern health care systems.

Initiatives haven't failed for want of money or even brains - they fail because the little fiefdoms in the NHS simply refuse to engage and quite often will only cooperate if their own pet solution is implemented. Patient considerations and benefits rarely enter the discussion.

Since nobody holds the fiefdoms to account (much easier to blame the government or suppliers) then every few years a programme is written off to be restarted under a new name with a new budget as another attempt is made.

Indeed but the elderly gentleman is also dealing with a cancer diagnosis and some adjustment needs to be made to allow him to get his presumably important blood test before the end of December.

Exactly this. I was riled by the OP putting "blood form" in speech marks like it was something the phlebotomist had made up. Also the mention of "the NHS computer".

Im surprised that people still don't realise that the NHS doesn't have one main computer system that everyone can access. It's well documented and a long lamented problem by staff and patients. It's mentioned in the news fairly regularly.

FIL made a mistake. Staff let him know. He'll need to go back.

I think one of the issues is that NHS care seems to vary massively depending on your area in the country.

Our GP is fantastic - you can always get a same-day appointment (either face-to-face or over the phone), you can pre-book online in advance (and cancel or rearrange online too). You can get blood tests within 24 hours - the appointments are 15 minutes (or half hour if you need). I've had three referrals recently and have got them all without issue. Yet I read threads online where people can't book in advance and have to wait weeks for even a routine appointment.

It's bonkers how it can work so, so well and simultaneously be such a disaster!

@QueenCremant
Thank you ...that's what I was trying to say.

I’m laughing at all the outrage about nhs IT systems, even though it’s not actually funny. But this is what nhs workers have to deal with every day.

The phlebotomist isn’t being obstructive by not taking blood, it just isn’t possible without knowing what to take. It’s also not as easy as just making a phone call and getting it emailed as suggested. 1, the blood forms aren’t designed for that and 2, it would take so much time and if you do it for one patient you have to do it for all.

In an ideal world, of course the gp would take bloods straight away but unfortunately it is a waste of their resources when they could be seeing other patients. They get 10 mins per patient including writing notes. You may have to help someone to remove clothing, you may struggle to find a vein and this can easily take 10 mins itself.

It is far from ideal but at least threads like this educate people about the nhs systems as it is all too easy to blame staff.

I’m shocked by this. Can only imagine it gives everyone a headache, patients and staff.

Would be worth the fortune to fix I think.

Kindness is my middle name, but there is only so much you can do..,
But there should be provisions for people who don't use IT

@TammyJones I think younhave missed the point that an elderly gentleman with cancer, under stress, forgot his forms and a bit of kindness wouldn't have gone amiss. My Trust is not helpful. At All.

Last year my mother, an elderly lady then of 87, had to have a complex heart procedure at a London hospital 70 miles from her home. She had to arrange a blood test at that hospital before her Consultant's appointment. The hospital had switched to on-line booking only. She tried and got into a pickle. She rang and asked if she could make an appointment by phone. A delightful staff member told her no she couldn't and if she couldn't use a computer, she needed to find someone who could. Fortunately she has me, albeit 90 minutes away but I was able to do it on her behalf.

It was disgracefully unhelpful. The hospital was in South London - possibly the same one the OP's FIL went to. I wrote to the CEO and got a very nice letter back advising they would review their procedures and acknowledging it added an additional stress for my elderly mother facing a complex procedure to save and extend her life.

The Consultant's and cardiac team who cared for her, after a last minute cancellation due not to capacity but an administrative error, were outstanding. Phlebotomy and general management and organisation were not but the overall attitudes and service standards were far higher and more caring than at my local trust in Surrey/SW London.

Basically..bring your letters / forms and be clear what you've come for.,,

And everyone I know are brilliant and bend over backwards for our patients but we can only work within the system.
Our staff are the most absolutely lovely people you could ever wish to meet , but while were ringing round trying to help people , we are not helping the the other people....

@TammyJones that's a problem the NHS needs to sort out then so it can serve the patients, you know the scummy customers who've paid in all their lives, a little better.

If you encountered NHS attitudes and poor service elsewhere, you would take your business elsewhere. The NHS is funded by the people for the people. The people in it need to make it work fir the people.

Yep
People come to us without a clue what they've come for and think we have a Magic computer we can put their name in.
There are 4 different parts in our one building....all different systems we can't accesses.

But it can take over AN HOUR to get through to a GP.......you do know this don't you?
(NHS worker here who spends all days talking shit to colleague here ....not. )

@Havanananana if I go to my haematology appointment I can have my bloods done there and then but I've converted it to a phone appointment as it's a 30 min drive

The issue with that is it's out of area so hospital send me blood forms but for my area or the blood clinic won't accept forms for the hospital area
Then they ring me for my phone appointment and sometimes can't access my bloods as it's out of area

My own GP doesn't do a blood clinic at all

This isn't my surgery but it gives you an idea, it's pick a clinic and turn up

www.broadwaysurgery.nhs.uk/preston-blood-test-clinics

No forms needed when I went for a blood test. Test was done at a brand new town centre health centre that a lot of GP practices in our area use. I walked in, up in the lift, followed the signs, last sign said sit here and wait - no need to knock.

There was no reception, no other people waiting - just a row of chairs.
There must of been a camera watching because a couple of minutes later a man popped his head round a door and called my name. It was all very Big Brother.

The only confirmation he needed was my DOB. Blood test was done and I was out of there in minutes.

Apart from him I didn't see a single soul which was weird because it is a big building.

Not sure how an elderly person would have managed. It was very swish and very unexpected and not at all like the NHS I know but hey ho it was kinda cool.

@NC2025NC Thanks for explaining this - it's even worse than what the OP described.

Just think. If the GP or Consultant (or their staff) could take the bloods there and then - which is what happens where I live - then none of the rest of the bloody "system" would even need to exist.

When I see my GP he takes blood samples if needed and sends them for analysis. He can test urine and stool samples actually at the surgery. He has an ultrasound scanner and an X-ray room, and so things like getting a plaster cast on a broken wrist can be done on the spot.

It is the same with the Consultant who I see once a year for an ongoing condition. What would take 4 or 5 appointments in the UK (bloods, urine, ultrasound scan, consultation/results discussion) is handled in one 10-minute appointment - an appointment that I book with the secretary at a time convenient to me, rather than receiving a letter telling me when to come, which might be at a less convenient time.