Elderly FIL and blood test

I work for a large NHS trust in the North West, 4 hospitals, One all computerised, very little paper, one of the other trusts in the same alliance, all paper!
We are the same trust!

Except our clinics are already full to bursting from open to close. If we did bloods on the spot for the GP for every patient that needed then they'd have to free us up from doing something else such as vaccinating babies or taking smears or I'd be there until midnight.

Just because it happens at your practice, doesn't mean it happens at every practice, why is this concept so hard to grasp for some people.

Honestly this is not unusual - its quite normal in modern healthcare systems elsewhere.

I've had similar experiences elsewhere in Europe - 15 minutes to cover appointment, samples, tests and scan (localised, not full monty). All samples processed in the same site, even if the nurse takes some of them (such as blood), all results digitised - no paper in sight. This is normal patient centric healthcare in most developed countries - and its a lot cheaper to operate than fragmented and disjointed care.

That latter is the big frustration - the entire bureaucratic mess doesn't even save money!

Yes that sounds extremely efficient! I'm not going to try and defend the UK health system but your experience of NHS is quite different to mine. I can get a GP appointment fairly quickly and blood test results are on my app within 24 hours at most. My nearest GP is 2 mins away and hospital is 35 mins away and usually pretty efficiently run, I've never had to wait an hour. So much in the UK probably depends on where you live too unfortunately .

FYI.

I get an annual MOT at my GP surgery. Bloods are taken (by the GP) and I receive the test kit for bowel cancer, a meeting which takes about 5 minutes. A week later I go back and get a 2-page A4 printout of my test results, the nurse analyses the bowel cancer test there and then and I spend 10-15 minutes discussing the results with the GP. The test result sheet includes the last 2-years results, and neat little bar charts that show if each measure is within the normal range, and also whether a particular number has increased or decreased since last time. There are about 24 different items on the sheet (liver function, red cells, white cells, vitamin D, HDL, LDL etc)

On to my annual Consultant check. Firstly, I can book this directly - at a time that suits me - rather then being "assigned" a time. The waiting time for an appointment is rarely more than 2 weeks - last time (in November) it was 6 days.

When I arrive at the Consultant's office and after I check in, I either go directly to the nurse for blood tests (which I did the first time I went) or I give her a copy of the test results that I got from the GP (as long as it is less than 30 days old). I then give a urine sample, which the nurse analyses while I'm waiting to see the Consultant. Once in the Consultant's office we spend 5 minutes discussing the results (he can see them on the system) relevent to this condition and then I'm up on the couch for an untrasound scan and internal exam. None of this face-to-face time with the Consultant takes much more than 10 minutes - 15 minutes maximum. From entering the front office to leaving never takes more than 30 minutes.

Compare and contrast with my experience in the UK before I moved abroad.

After the GP sent a referral letter to the Consultant, there was an 8-week waiting list, and I was eventually assigned a date and time that was not particularly convenient, but so be it.

The GP surgery actually offered blood tests (I had these annually) but the Consultant didn't have these results, and nor did I. I had only been told that "everything was OK" but not given any print-out or any details on the phone.

The Consultant spent 5 minutes discussing the condition, was visibly annoyed that no blood test results were available (he couldn't see them on his "system") and suggested an ultrasound scan.... which would have to be booked with a sonographer as he didn't do these scans himself. So another 6-week wait for an sonographer appointment, and then another 8-week wait for the follow-up appointment. The appointments never ran on time - often the wait was as long as an hour.

All this was happening at a clinic 45 mins drive from home, so entailed taking an afternoon off work and a 3-4 hour round trip.

What takes minutes here in Europe (I've lived in 3 different countries) takes weeks or months in the UK, yet this is accepted as being "normal" and for whatever reason, there are people on here defending the situation and seemingly refusing to see that there might be other ways of addressing the situation.

Standard here as well.

Seperate iterations of multi billion spending. There have been several, each wasting vast sums of money for largely the same reasons.

NPfIT was a project that started 25 years ago. Many large Consultancies actually declined to bid for the work, despite it being worth billions and at the time, it was the largest IT project in Europe (if not in the world), because it was deemed by the bid teams to be undeliverable. At the time I was working for Big 5 Consultancy that thankfully did not win one of the contracts. People involved in responding to the Tender had stated openly that they would resign rather than work on the project.

It's shocking isn't it? And so many people defending it as normal and getting annoyed when patients (rightly) expect better!

Completely standard. They won't know what bloods to take without the form. And they can't look at your records to find out.

@Lanzarotelady or the GP could get the patient to book in with a practise nurse, which is what happens at our practise. Often the same day but if not, within a week at most.

And if they can't get blood then the patient just makes another appointment, which is exactly what I had to do a couple of months ago when the nurse couldn't find a vein and ran out of time.

I'm really not sure why people are acting as though the only alternative to a clinic is for GP's to spend over an hour doing a blood test!

Sorry but all those tests wouldn't just take 10 mins in any country 😕

It was even longer ago than that. When the NHS was tendering for the work I worked for a global tech company who thought they'd won the contract. They didn't. I remember thinking it was a lucky escape for anyone who'd be working on it.

And we wonder why people with learning disabilities and severe mental health conditions have appalling physical health outcomes.

@QueenCremant None of the posts are blaming the staff. People are aware that NHS staff are as frustrated as the patients.

The critcism is that this state of affairs has been allowed to develop and has become the accepted norm. There are even people on the thread defending it. How can something as simple as a blood test involve so many steps, and why has the responsibility for negotiating an often inpenetrable and illogical system been passed on to the patient, who often has neither the time, resources or knowledge about how to go about it?

When do you think the GP has the time to do [blood tests]? Clearly some GPs still do this. I have regular blood tests - 3 different tests at a time. It takes the GP or nurse no more than 3 minutes to do this. It would save the patient (in this case the OP's FIL) several hours - and relieve much stress.

Imagine if every patient forgot their form and turned up at the GP needing it done? Clearly not every patient is going to forget their form - but what about a system where they didn't need a form at all? One solution is that everything is done electronically (and I appreciate there are major issues with this). Another is that the GP surgery takes the bloods - as they always used to, as some still do, and as is standard in every European country that I've lived in.

There are just not the staff or resources. Agreed. But there are posts on here defending the situation. There are threads on MN about how the NHS is a black hole (despite successive UK governments choosing to invest far less per person in healthcare than other countries invest) and more threads about how taxation that pays for vital public services is too high (despite the UK having one of the lowest rates of personal tax in Europe).

The GP could take them, if they had the skills to do so! It could be years since they've actually taken bloods.
Also you have no idea of the length of time it takes to do some peoples bloods, it can take ages to find a suitable vein! I have worked in clinics where 3 or 4 of us have had a go! Taken over an hour! Do you think that is a good use of a GP time?
If you were next to go in and your appointment was delayed by an hour all for the sake of taking blood, you'd be saying, why not go to a clinic!

It's not, though, as several of us have said. Many practises do routine blood tests every single day without anyone needing to visit a hospital or bring a random piece of paper with them.

Last time I had bloods I had my results within five hours.

@QueenCremant it's so depressing that access to routine medical care is now seen as extraordinary.

It should be 100% normal to have same day access to a doctor and to be able to receive a basic blood tests at the same time (or at least, within a day or two). The fact that people are having to travel hours and visit hospitals is horrendous to me.

It isn't. I don't need the form. The GP sends a request via a portal to the hospital and I make an appointment digitally. My GP does not offer blood tests.

In my experience that it is not the norm and is an amazing service.

My GP offered blood tests but it takes a while for an appointment. A lot of GP surgeries no longer offer them.

When she was unwell and having a myriad of tests at a variety of hospitals because her local one didn't do the procedure she needed, she got into an utter pickle with a stack of letters that she had in an elastic banded wadge. It's not surprising someone so elderly was getting stressed and confused. When I saw it all I went and bought a folder with plastic sub-sections, filed everything in date and procedure order and wrote her a lost of key information and outstanding action points.

It beggars belief that the elderly are expected independently to orga kse all of this, especially when some it is technology driven and requires the use of IT. It took me about 20 minutes but I deal with complex information on a daily basis.

The NHS needs to do a lot more to facilitate the elderly and I am sure that would minimise delays and waste.

It's common sense and isn't rocket science.

@QueenCremant but some places can manage it. I've had multiple blood tests recently and have always been able to get an appointment within 24 hours with a practise nurse.

No need to go to hospital, no bringing bits of paper, no need to travel or get help from a relative - my GP sends a request to reception and by the time I've walked from their office to the desk, they know what I need to book in and why.

I can’t believe you’ve never encountered this OP. It’s always the case that you need the form and always has been.

When do you think the GP has the time to do that? Imagine if every patient forgot their form and turned up at the GP needing it done?

There are just not the staff or resources.