"Trans people should not be allowed to use women’s showers and changing rooms, proposed NHS guidance says" - Darlington Nurses draft new guidance.

I’ve already tried that. They said that it’s separate facilities, or separate use of. They believe the lockable “pod” constitutes separate use.

I’ve raised issues with storing sanitary products in a locker in a mixed-sex area. I’ve highlighted the number of women, statistically, who have been victims of sexual assaults or violent behaviour from men and may therefore find the new locker room difficult. I’ve raised cultural issues, the fact that people (men) WILL still change at their lockers and that two pods is a completely insufficient number for the amount of staff. They aren’t interested.

Reading between the lines, they are pre-empting an as yet nonexistent person actually transitioning and the subsequent need to provide additional facilities or deal with issues such as in the OP. If we only have one locker room, they won’t need to provide anything else and no one will be able to complain.

Exactly. We’re “being kind” exactly as we are commanded to be by the TRAs. But we know.

And you’re so right about the way that transwomen insisting on using women’s single sex spaces breaks down the social contract about men staying out of women’s spaces.

If we’re required to accept that a man can “identify “ as a woman, and do nothing to mitigate his maleness, then it becomes difficult to challenge any man who barges into women’s single-sex spaces. The social contract breaks down.

We ladies are not really being listened to and that's a big problem.

Part of the problem maybe is that men don't want to share their spaces with trans and because they shout louder, ladies have the issue put on them.

I agree that a third space would help resolve this but many smaller buildings just don't have the space to make that work.

Well, it should be transwomen. Transmen are welcome to share women’s single-sex spaces. Because they are women.

I'm sure men would happily swap the male changing rooms for the female changing rooms, but then women would likely complain about not having shower curtains or changing cubicles.

And in what way is me not telling you my diagnosis somehow disproving of my sex? As I’ve said you don’t have to believe me, I’m here and offering my perspective which is relatively unique to MN as you’re pointed out yourself. If you choose to not listen then that’s ok and on you.
You’re fishing for personal information to try and invalidate my opinion on a third space which would be great for everyone. That way me and transgender folk don’t have to feel like we’re making you uncomfortable with our presence.
I’ve tried to explain things to you as clearly and simply as possible but you are clearly not in a listening mood. To reiterate, please look for your local community and learn from them directly, who knows - I might see you there! Best of luck on your learning adventures. (Also the other intersex individuals I know avoid X like the plague due to the Trump administration and Musks association. X is famously right wing and is not an objective source)

MEN should not be allowed to use women's changing rooms/toilets/showers. The person that the Darlington nurses are complaining about is a MAN. He says he identifies as a woman, but he is unequivocally a MAN. Transwomen are MEN. I don't think the Darlington nurses have mentioned transmen. Or even transpeople.

I just really don't think that males who identify as trans women understand that they think they pass because most women don't want to be punched in the face or verbally abused for calling their presence out.

We know men are physically stronger than women.

When decent males stay out those with nefarious purposes stay out.

Decent trans women respect the need for women to have single sex spaces. They have choices.

Of course men should not be allowed in women’s spaces. How has society become so fucked up that this is even a question?

So many people who need to see genitals to know if someone is male or female. I hope they're all bisexual. Can you imagine what dating as a straight or gay person must be like when you routinely can't tell men from women?

I'm aware that trans people can be FTM or MTF. That's the point I'm making. Will FTM be happy to share space with MTF?

There are a lot of really masculine-looking women in the world and I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of them use women's rooms.

Not sure of the point of your question when the entire thread is about men not only wanting to barge their way into women's rooms but also being completely blasé about the predators who will quite cheerfully say they're trans to waltz into the same spaces.

If trans women actually felt as fearful of abusive men as they say, and if they actually gave a shit about women, they might want to stop and ponder this quandry for a minute.

I suggest that you look up the health and safety laws as they state that an employer must provide single sex changing and toilet facilities

Actually it is almost always very easy to tell a man pretending to be a woman and an actual woman with short hair apart.

Accessible facilities are usually unisex.
Hence all the wee on the floor because men use them too

What do non gender conforming disabled people do? After all a large proportion of disabled facilities are unisex.

I mean, if you know people on X then it must be true.

Haha. I should discount people on X with real names and photos that check out and who speak knowledgeably about their conditions, but I should believe you and the meaningless fluff you're giving us here? Hell, I should discount actual medical fact?

No I am not disclosing my personal information, that’s a silly thing to ask me to do

Dig, dig, dig...

I did not ask you to tell us what DSD you claim to have. I said that if you told us which DSD you claim to have, we will know what sex that DSD occurs in, since they all occur in one or the other. It is highly offensive to tell someone who isn’t non binary that they are somehow incomplete or not real or not actually a man or a woman, and that's exactly what the term intersex does...and this is why it is roundly rejected by the community, which also rejects being dragged into the trans issue (what's it got to do with them?) This is so easily verifiable that anyone who spends even a little time on it will find it to be so. There was one blogger, sadly no longer active (I think she got sick of being exploited by TRAs) who said that people who kept dragging her into the trans issue and suggesting she wasn't really female should leave her condition alone and acquaint themselves with another, preferably rigor mortis.

In fact, people with DSDs are most prominent in professional women's sports, where a very disproportionately high number of men with DSDs compete as women. They rarely identify as trans (that's for the men without DSDs) and in fact are offended at the idea, as it would mean they aren't women. Which they aren't.

You and I both know that everything I've said is true and checks out...Well, maybe you didn't, but you do now.

Plus accessible
5 spaces
Yes it’s silly but we now have two extras to accommodate so 🤷‍♀️

The third space raises a question: would men who identify as women want to share a space with women who identify as men?

Nope. Men who identify as women will continue to use the space for women because that is what they believe they are. They do not need a third space when there is already a space there for them - the women's. They will not use a space for transpeople because they do not identify as transpeople.

HollyKnight well said. I think it the Emperor's new clothes time again!

Yes and that is before you include furries who require litter trays! 😂

The “trans people” part of the quote just doesn’t make sense. The real question to ask is if they are biologically male or female? If female then yes they can use the women’s shower facilities. If male then no.

Trans people can be FTM as well as MTF

The third space raises a question: would men who identify as women want to share a space with women who identify as men? I don't think biological men ought to be allowed to use women's restrooms/changing facilities and I think in their obsession to be seen as women, trans men don't want trans women in their space. Four spaces? Women. Men. Trans women. Trans men. This is getting silly.

Men who believe themselves to be women are going to keep on using the female places because that is where they believe they belong.

Some will, yes. If they are big enough shits, who don't give a damn about women.