"Trans people should not be allowed to use women’s showers and changing rooms, proposed NHS guidance says" - Darlington Nurses draft new guidance.

Strange then that we were able to police this for DECADES, until trans became a thing, then, isn't it? Back then the social contract and public shaming of men in womens spaces was enough to work. Added that women were able to scream, call the police for help, and the male would be arrested and charged with Indecent Exposure.

We just need to go back to those days. Which was basically only 10 years ago.

I sometimes wonder how young these people are who ask 'how are you going to police it'. They obviously didn't grow up in society prior to 10 years ago, or in the pre-2000s, or lived under a rock and never ventured into public spaces. Ever. Because its such a stupid fucking question otherwise.

@Duebug There is absolutely zero evidence whatsoever that male facilities are not safe for transwomen. No assaults ever reported. Indeed and in fact, transwomen have repeatedly said themselves that they are safe in the male facilities. One transwoman last year posted a video on twitter of them in the male urinals (males in the background).

The whole 'transwomen are not safe in the males' is THE biggest proven LIE going. They are in fact, the safest cohort in the males. Gay men have also said this. So please stop repeating a dangerous lie.

The only voice we ever hear, are trans voices. Never the voices of females. NEVER. So this is a welcome change from the usual femphobic misogyny and the trans-captured media.

Go to HR over it. Strike. Go to tribunal. The press. You have opens, other than lying down and taking it.

You've never heard the saying of girls going to the powder room together, have you.

Its not just about safety. Its about privacy and dignity away from the male gaze. A neutered male is still a male and will never get womens issues or womens talk, so we aren't free to be ourselves/speak freely while they're around.

I’d be looking at the percentage of women attacked or abused by men ( which is really fucking high) and safeguarding THEM primarily. Third spaces are the best option.

Trans men DO push for access to men’s spaces.
Presumably though the men feel less physically threatened by a trans man in their space, than women do with a trans woman. Naturally.

@Catza 1 in 3 of us struggle with our mental health at times though and we are content to use the bathrooms of the sex we are born as though. I don't think being trans is comparable to a disability. I

Mental illness can destroy lives. Being asked to use the bathroom of your birth sex doesn't. How offensive to compare the two things.

Can't understand this logic.

If you don't feel safe around men or women then who would you be sharing the third space with?

I'll presume the answer is human beings so therefore you'd be sharing the space with men and/or women?

They do have rights. Just not in my bathroom, changing room or on any sport I choose to participate in.

NonPlayerCharacter , well they're not having them!

@KimberleyClark

Sexual assault is usually more about power and using strength to dominate than sex drive or genitalia so a transitioned biologically born man isn't going to be any less or more of a risk to women. A man is man, regardless of whether how he identifies, how low his testosterone is, whether he has a penis still or not.

I have heard the argument that chemically transitioned TW don't pose a threat to women like cismen. If that's true why doesn't it work the other way? High testosterone women (ie. Women with PCOS) would show patterns of unusually sexually aggressive behaviour and be committing offences against children and other women. But we rarely see this. Isn't that funny?

@Flapjacka For Christmas i'd like men to stay out of womens spaces🤶

Yeah, all those silly, rights hoarding middle class dinosaurs of a certain age. Why don't they just pipe down and stop making a fuss about things?

Women need these spaces because they can't have safeguarding or equal opportunity without them. TRAs want these spaces because they think it will validate them as women.

No woman uses the women's toilets or changing room because she needs reassurance that people see her as female. She uses them precisely because she and everyone else knows she is female.

There is transphobia and there is women being worried about safeguarding concerns. I'm not seeing the first group on this thread, I am however seeing plenty of the second.

Transfolk aren't a new thing but this demand to use women's spaces is. Funny that.

Does anyone really believe that in the past transfolk never went out in public or restricted their fluid intake because they couldn't use the bathrooms of their birth gender? Because I don't. I saw plenty of men dressed as ladies at Pride events in the past, I saw them drinking plenty and full of confidence and bravado staying out all hours . I didn't see any of them with anxiety about using the toilet. I'm calling bullshit on this idea. So, this begs the question : why can't they just use the bathrooms of their birth sex????

The sources usually quoted are self reported surveys that include "crimes" not reported to police. When anyone can claim that they were a victim, with no evidence whatsoever required, those statistics need to be taken with an entire box of salt.

Yep
Entitlement

Entitlement

Of course men have a right to single sex spaces too. They don't face the same physical threat from women but they may still require the spaces for reasons of dignity, privacy, religious belief and so on.

Additional third, unisex spaces would seem to be the answer. Then everyone has two options. The problem is that so many TRAs do not want a choice of a men's space or a mixed sex place for themselves. They want the women's spaces.

I don't see why this can't be case tbh. It used to be that trans persons would use the bathrooms of their birth sex, I don't know why or how it changed.

That’s actually irrelevant. I don't think that any of the men I work with are likely to assault me in the toilets, but as with any other male, I don't want them in the ladies staff toilets end of.

I agree. Men deserve privacy, too. Sure, some men don't care if women watch them peeing at a urinal, but other men do care and they deserve to have their privacy.

If they are only providing 2 pods for everyone on a shift they are not providing enough of them.
I know that this is being forced on police officers against their will.
Have you thought about contacting the seen in police? If not faircop can put you in touch with your local branch if you're interested.
Good luck