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Original poster

"Trans people should not be allowed to use women’s showers and changing rooms, proposed NHS guidance says" - Darlington Nurses draft new guidance.

437 replies

MrBungle · 03/12/2024 13:47

Is this a reasonable response to the Darlington Nurses issue? (males in female changing spaces)

Wes Streeting requested the Darlington Nurses drafter the guidance.

https://archive.ph/BNTtH (Link to Telegraph article discussing details)

OP posts:
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17
Abitofalark · 03/12/2024 17:11

The only way that works is the traditional segregation by sex that is understood and accepted by society as the right and proper civilised arrangement for the benefit of all. Mixed sex isn't a viable option - if it is dangerous for women and girls to have men going into women's designated loos and other spaces, it's equally dangerous for women and girls who would choose to go into mixed sex ones if that option were to be made available.
A third space on non-sex basis is necessary in addition to the two traditional sex based ones. If women who change sex, so to speak, were to go into the women's and girls' on the grounds that they are still women, how would you be able to tell which apparent man was a man and which wasn't?

Runningupthecurtains · 03/12/2024 17:09

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But one man should be allowed to rewrite the definition of the women's changing room/ shower?
Nope, single sex spaces are for the sex they designated for, not for whoever wants to barge in.

ARealitycheck · 03/12/2024 17:09

GrumpyPanda · 03/12/2024 17:03

Only where there's a) no regular cleaning and b) and much more importantly, no potty parity rules, so female spaces will be having, at a rough guess, three times the usage of the equivalent male space.

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The amount of use either place gets does not negate either sex leaving them in a disgusting state.

Original poster
MrBungle · 03/12/2024 17:09

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And yet... they ARE rewriting the policy and they DO have Wes Streeting's ear on it - so it's happening.

Looks like it's finally all ok to call your opinions out for the bullshit they are. the tide has well and truly turned.

#feelsbadman

🕶

OP posts:
StandingSideBySide · 03/12/2024 17:08

ARealitycheck · 03/12/2024 17:05

My post agreed with you. I doubt many people men or women want to get changed in front of anyone. Single cubicles are the answer.

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Did I tag onto you. Apologies
My fury is getting the better of me and I clearly responded to the wrong MNetter think I need a chamomile

I agree with you!!! Too

username299 · 03/12/2024 17:08

ARealitycheck · 03/12/2024 17:05

My post agreed with you. I doubt many people men or women want to get changed in front of anyone. Single cubicles are the answer.

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Single cubicles aren't the answer for me. I don't want men in women's spaces. Women have been dragged into cubicles and raped. Men have been caught masturbating in women's changing rooms. No thanks.

lifeturnsonadime · 03/12/2024 17:07

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Aye right,

Women wanting privacy from the male gaze are just transphobic. It's horrible transphobia not to kow tow to the demands of males don't ya know.

Yawn.

PoundlandColumbo · 03/12/2024 17:07

It's disappointing that some women are happy to give up rights that women have fought long and hard for. Stop budging up!

Svolvaer · 03/12/2024 17:06

How about instead of "Men" and "Women" on toilet doors we have "XY" and "XX"
(Slightly tongue in cheek)

ARealitycheck · 03/12/2024 17:05

StandingSideBySide · 03/12/2024 17:03

A MN thread sometime ago about shop communal changing facilities in the 70s / 80s would disagree with you there.

’Most’ women do not enjoy communal changing rooms, I think you’ll find.

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My post agreed with you. I doubt many people men or women want to get changed in front of anyone. Single cubicles are the answer.

username299 · 03/12/2024 17:04

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Some bloke shouldn't be intimidating women when they're vulnerable, no matter who he claims to be.

StandingSideBySide · 03/12/2024 17:03

ARealitycheck · 03/12/2024 16:59

Camarederie??? Your in there to get changed or use the facilities. Not have a natter and a laugh. You aren't at school.

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A MN thread sometime ago about shop communal changing facilities in the 70s / 80s would disagree with you there.

’Most’ women do not enjoy communal changing rooms, I think you’ll find.

GrumpyPanda · 03/12/2024 17:03

OriginalUsername2 · 03/12/2024 16:46

True but the women’s toilets in public places can be just as disgusting.

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Only where there's a) no regular cleaning and b) and much more importantly, no potty parity rules, so female spaces will be having, at a rough guess, three times the usage of the equivalent male space.

TheKeatingFive · 03/12/2024 17:00

KimberleyClark · 03/12/2024 15:00

What about transwomen without penises - should they be allowed to use female showers?

No

ARealitycheck · 03/12/2024 16:59

GrumpyPanda · 03/12/2024 16:56

Now that sounds like the ultimate claustrophobic, dystopian nightmare. Most women actually enjoy the camaraderie in single-sex spaces, which also happen to be more space-efficient and far less cramped. I don't see why you'd force everybody into fucking cubicles, including shlepping around things cubicle to locker, all for the sake of a tiny minority?

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Camarederie??? Your in there to get changed or use the facilities. Not have a natter and a laugh. You aren't at school.

StandingSideBySide · 03/12/2024 16:57

Mummyoflittledragon · 03/12/2024 16:55

As a mother of a daughter with one of these medical conditions the difference is that she would be behind a locked door. It is an issue. She could choke on her own vomit and be able to do nothing about it when she comes around and die.

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Then the doors need to be openable from the outside
with an alarm internally like in disabled toilets.

Id also advocate and want a portable alarm/ call system if I had a child with such a serious condition.

ARealitycheck · 03/12/2024 16:57

Mummyoflittledragon · 03/12/2024 16:55

As a mother of a daughter with one of these medical conditions the difference is that she would be behind a locked door. It is an issue. She could choke on her own vomit and be able to do nothing about it when she comes around and die.

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What does your daughter do during the rest of her life if working in eg a hospital or out and about alone in public? Presumably the same could happen if she used the toilets in a shopping centre with enclosed an area.

Circumferences · 03/12/2024 16:57

StandingSideBySide · 03/12/2024 16:53

Denying their existence isn’t going to solve the problem
They exist, nothing we can do about it.
The only way to truly sort this issue and the dignity and safety of women is to provide separate spaces.
At the moment if we complain about a trans women in our toilets we are shouted down and could be accused of hate speech. So let’s get them out by legislating for trans spaces.
Digging our heels in and pretending they don’t exist will get us no where.

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Up until about last Wednesday we'd say "transvestites".

Everyone knows transvestites exist, no one is denying that

Mummyoflittledragon · 03/12/2024 16:56

ButterCrackers · 03/12/2024 16:45

This.
I’d be happy to go in and use these facilities to get changed. Fat, old and I don’t care. Let the men feel uncomfortable with my being there. Let them complain about needing men only changing areas.

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Agreed

GrumpyPanda · 03/12/2024 16:56

ARealitycheck · 03/12/2024 15:22

Turn them all into changing villages the same as many leisure centres. Only ensure floor to ceiling closure. Same with the showers and toilets with a seperated male urinal for stand up urinater's aka normal men. Take the thrill away from trying to get into a woman only space from certain trans groups.

Now that sounds like the ultimate claustrophobic, dystopian nightmare. Most women actually enjoy the camaraderie in single-sex spaces, which also happen to be more space-efficient and far less cramped. I don't see why you'd force everybody into fucking cubicles, including shlepping around things cubicle to locker, all for the sake of a tiny minority?

Circumferences · 03/12/2024 16:55

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Have you actually followed the case?

Mummyoflittledragon · 03/12/2024 16:55

ARealitycheck · 03/12/2024 15:29

We are talking about workplace changing. If collapsing was a concern, there are any number of places a person could collapse unnoticed during a working day. Most toilets serving the public & staff in hospitals have complete closure.

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As a mother of a daughter with one of these medical conditions the difference is that she would be behind a locked door. It is an issue. She could choke on her own vomit and be able to do nothing about it when she comes around and die.

StandingSideBySide · 03/12/2024 16:53

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Neither should Stonewall

Thepurplepig · 03/12/2024 16:53

When are we going to call it what it is. Men, women, mentally ill. Somebody tried to tell me that sex is a fluid concept last week. Just fuck off!

StandingSideBySide · 03/12/2024 16:53

JuneSoon · 03/12/2024 16:48

Transwomen won’t use the mens

Fine, but they need to keep out of the women's. So we need to stop calling them transwomen.

Denying their existence isn’t going to solve the problem
They exist, nothing we can do about it.
The only way to truly sort this issue and the dignity and safety of women is to provide separate spaces.
At the moment if we complain about a trans women in our toilets we are shouted down and could be accused of hate speech. So let’s get them out by legislating for trans spaces.
Digging our heels in and pretending they don’t exist will get us no where.