"Trans people should not be allowed to use women’s showers and changing rooms, proposed NHS guidance says" - Darlington Nurses draft new guidance.

@Duebug well as an allegedly "intersex" individual you should know then that all such humans are still either male or female, so there is no ambiguity about which bathrooms they are able to use because they will know whether their condition is a variant which either affects males or females.

Many of us, myself included, reject the term CIS. I am not a subset of my own sex class.
I am a woman. A trans woman is a man. The burden should fall to men to be more accommodating to trans women in their spaces rather than women and girls to risk our safety by accommodating them in ours. Women's single sex spaces were fought for based on need. Those needs still exist. It is horribly white centric to ignore the cultural needs of minority women also and to tell them they must share their spaces with men.

Except when TWs post on social media about walking past the mixed sex facilities to deliberately seek out the women's....

Amen! And it ain’t a fucking privilege

For me, this is about the importance of the individual being able to make their own risk assessment if that makes sense.
I object to men being in women’s spaces because it is a risk that we didn’t choose to take, nor do we gain any benefit from it.
So if I decided to walk home pissed in the dark, that is my choice (perhaps a daft one, but still my choice) and the reward is that I get home without paying for a taxi.

So I would be in favour of, where practical, a third gender neutral space.

Men are a risk to women. Therefore, men use the men’s. Trans women can either use the men’s (if they choose to do so) or they can use the gender neutral one. Trans men can use whichever of the three they want as they are biological women. and Women get to keep their space.

This is all about every individual having the choice to take whatever risks they deem necessary. Allowing biological men in to women’s spaces takes that choice from us.

Being cis is a privilege

Being called 'cis' is certainly not, though. 😡

Hi. Username should give my position away.

I would like to see third spaces. I'm fucking tired. I don't wanna go into detail with the whys and wheres because I'm fucking tired. Just allow us third spaces so we can use the bathroom away from people who hate us. We will never be accepted that's clear, so give us spaces so you don't have to tolerate being around us. We are aware that we are mostly seen as vermin.

I'm aware there will be people in my community who will disagree with me, but I'm tired of fighting them too. So fucking tired.

Don't be ridiculous.

To get a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) in the UK, you must:
-Be at least 18 years old
-Have lived in your acquired gender for at least two years
-Plan to live permanently in your new gender
-Provide two medical reports written by different medical doctors or clinical psychologists in the UK

If you take your fingers out of your ears, stop bellowing "TRANSPHOBE" every five seconds and open your eyes, you will find that, in fact, transgender people have been making their voices heard very clearly, very repetitively and very loudly for far too long.

Agree everyone should have their own spaces
Disagree with the term cis

One nurse has claimed that she had a panic attack after repeatedly being asked by Rose while alone with her in the changing room, “Are you getting changed yet?”
Rose really does sound like a poor marginalised transwomen who just wants to get changed in peace doesn't he.

We have very good reasons for stigmatising men who want to change and shower with women and children.

Still, if you want to undress with men because you think it makes you morally superior, have at it. But I am glad you're leaving the women's spaces alone for those of us who don't think grown men should be undressing with little girls. Please encourage this among your fellow allies who see nothing wrong with that. You won't have to look far to find them.

Someone needs to release a photo of the dude who's entering the women's changing rooms in Darlington.

Absolutely
Why not

as an intersex individual I reject that notion entirely, relabelling only increases the general confusion to the issue at hand and dismisses the voices of the communities it affects.
Side note - if you think additional mixed spaces to be trans-inclusive would hurt cis-women and girls why would they not be able to use their pre-assigned bathrooms? Being cis is a privilege and we should be striving to make everyone as happy and comfortable in their lives as possible - if that means more bathrooms and changing spaces to make everyone happier I really don’t understand the problem. The concept of transgenderism isn’t new and we as a community should be doing more for less represented communities.

A third space seems like the obvious solution.
Biological female
Biological male
Mixed. For those who believe biology doesn't matter or don't feel at risk or vulnerable in mixed sex spaces It will be a safe place because all the kind gender identity comes first, biology doesn't matter people will be using it. So no problem. Everyones sorted.

Gender non-conforming women are welcome in women’s spaces, same as other women.

Where I used to work we had mixed. In the door to 4 separate cubicles with loo, hand basin, mirror and lockable doors and 1 room with shower and loo and big enough to get showered and changed in complete privacy

Worked fine. No shared space

You think that the 5 WOMEN should vacate the WOMEN'S changing rooms and use a manager's office or a toilet (the available alternatives) so that a MAN could use the WOMEN'S facilities instead?

Yes, he really does.
He thinks he can shove the label 'transphobic' on women with legitimate reasons for needing same sex facilities and that makes it ok to discriminate against them.

Pink news really isn't a reliable news source. 😂
In fact the NHS trust was totally on the man's side, lecturing the women about the importance of allowing him to indecently expose himself to them if he wished and offering the women a small cupboard space elsewhere, leaving the man in the women's facilities.
Which is why those courageous women are standing up for the rights of women and girls not to be forced to undress in front of random men and are going to court.

www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/24739471.darlington-nurse-spoke-transgender-row-womans-hour/

I always find it fascinating how there is so much conversation about making spaces inclusive for transgender people, and little to no conversation about making places accessible for those with disabilities. Many toilet facilities in public lack a proper hoist or the necessary equipment for disabled people. Train stations with platform lifts broken, or no lifts at all. Journey have to be meticulously planned.
I really think we need to focus on this first. Or at very least, alongside.

Change the signage from "Ladies & Gents" to something like

"Penis-havers & Vagina-havers" 😀😀

FWIW I always use 'mixed' on principle because I don't care and to make it less stigmatised for trans people. I want women's spaces to be separate but am also happy to be an 'ally' through this v small act of solidarity.

That's because it detracts from their belief that transwomen are women.

If they can't use women's spaces, well .... Hence the rage.

When I first visited Aviva Studios in Manchester just after it opened all of the toilets were mixed sex (“all genders” I think they said). I didn’t like it, I don’t want to share toilets with men.

When I went back last month they’d been split into 3 - men’s, women’s and all genders. Generally men went in theirs and women in theirs, I did see one bloke (although I didn’t check how he identified 😂) going into the all genders but I suspect he was off for a dump in peace rather than showing his trans allyship.

Given how woke the arts sector is, I can only imagine either a serious incident or customer complaints forced the change.

Urgh.

Women's spaces should be for women only.

However, I do not feel comfortable at all throwing post op Transwomen in with men. Men are a risk to Transwomen too, statistically transwomen are more at risk than women (one source: https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-trans-press-release/ and there's more if you google).

4 spaces. Men/Women/Transwomen/Transmen.

Or single cubicle everything.

Or say top and bottom surgery is a qualifier (frankly I'd be okay with this, but appreciate many aren't and we should be working towards a solution the majority are happy with - I'm bored of the ridiculous pandering to a minority that shuts down debate.)