"Trans people should not be allowed to use women’s showers and changing rooms, proposed NHS guidance says" - Darlington Nurses draft new guidance.

Does anyone have any statistics on the number of trans-identified born female people who have obtained access to male spaces and violently/sexually assaulted men in those spaces?

This precisely.
To that poster - If you don’t feel safe around men or women. You’re saying you don’t feel safe around ANY people. So are you asking for a space that’s literally just for you personally?

You mean before tranwomen increased in numbers? Well, yes. But saying "no males in women's facilities" now won't stop transwomen from entering the female facilities because 1. they consider themselves to be women, and 2. you can't prove they aren't women at the door.

I want third spaces BECAUSE I DO NOT FEEL SAFE AROUND MEN OR WOMEN

Who do you think will be in the unisex space?

@nonbinaryfinery stop being so needlessly dramatic. Nobody is trying to bully you out of existence, nor does anybody hate you as you previously claimed. Most of us simply don't believe you. If you don't feel safe around either men or women, despite the fact that you are clearly one or other yourself, then I suggest you get some help for your mental health. Your immediate leap to victim hood is troubling. Just because we don't believe your "non binary" claims doesn't mean anyone simply wishes you didn't exist.

Wouldn't it be better to deal with your fears?

It's the only sensible solution in my opinion. The trans box is one that can't be closed.

Would you agree to a mixed space for everybody?

No you don't. But go ahead and assume.

I want third spaces BECAUSE I DO NOT FEEL SAFE AROUND MEN OR WOMEN

You're entitled to feel safe in your spaces, let us have the same. You'll clearly never accept us. If you want us to stay away, FINE, but you don't get to bully us out of existence just because you don't like us.

No it doesn't guarantee anything. Security isn't going to check anyone's genitals or carry out a DNA test. And you can't always tell. Countless "tomboys" get misgendered as men because they don't look like a stereotypical woman. It doesn't mean they are not women nor should they be prevented from using the female facilities. My best friend is one of these women. Short hair, no makeup, lives in jeans and plaid shirts. Since all this trans crap has started she has been confronted in the female bathrooms so many times. It's incredibly humiliating for her. She actually won't use the bathrooms now when we're out to avoid this. That is unfair.

Completely agree. Maybe "transgender identified men" would work. Messing around with language confuses things, and imo, has almost certainly been done deliberately.

I agree with this completely.

Well the response to the argument is: too bad, sorry.

Because the concern of trans people not to be potentially “outed” is completely irreconcilable with women’s right to safety, dignity and privacy. It is a clash of rights, and it has to be resolved in favour of women.

The alternative is to allow ALL MEN into women’s spaces. That means:

• genuine” trans people (assuming such a category indeed exists),
• predatory men who pretend to be transgender in order to gain access to women’s spaces
• predatory men generally, some of whom may say they are trans but actually make zero attempt to appear or “live as a woman” ((whatever the fcuk that means).

Predatory men have trained for the priesthood, become doctors/nurses or got jobs in children’s homes or as Scout leaders in order to get access to victims. Ie they’ve a track record for doing far more than donning a skirt and lipstick.

If men with special identities have to be let into women’s spaces then no-one can any longer challenge any men in there, otherwise they’ll have misogynistic whiners like @DadJoke accusing them of transphobia.

The good ones stay out so the bad ones stand out. That’s why single sex spaces are vital.

I dunno about that, it seems to have worked fine up until recently.

The way people talk about trans people here is disgusting.

Any offers to "punch them in the fucking face?" 🙁I don't see a problem. But of course, the first priority of MN posters is going to be the welfare of women and children, rather than a self-regarding small cohort of males.

As I've said before changing villages are the only sensible way forward.

I'd suspect in the case in the OP, there are other changing facilities in Darlington hospital the non binary, sex change or whatever could use, but just want to make a scene.

"I'm sorry if the truth offends you."

Who cares?

Doesn't matter if zero crimes were committed by men without penises.

They're still men.

@nonbinaryfinery stop with the hyperbole. You know fully we the reality of your sexed body. Choosing to eschew regressive gender stereotypes doesn't change that. Nor does it make you some magical third sex. Use the appropriate bathroom for your biological sex. It's really much more simple than you're making it.

Can you quote some of the disgusting things that have been said please?

They are correct though. Is what they're saying not true? The way people talk about trans people here is disgusting.

@NonPlayerCharacter I don't believe their claim for one second personally.

People with DSDs are well under 1% of the population and there is clear consensus among the community that the term "intersex" is offensive and inaccurate and misleading, as it implies that people with DSDs aren't male or female when in fact they all are. That is literally how you diagnose the DSD. There is no third gamete and no third sex. There is also clear consensus that the DSD community wishes not to be exploited by trans activists since it's nothing to do with them, and they do not in any way prove that sex isn't real; quite the opposite, they prove it still exists even when sex development has a variation from the standard.

How lucky we are to have a poster among our midst who not only has a DSD - itself an extremely rare occurrence - but one who rejects the very clear and overwhelming consensus of the DSD community, made plain over several years now, in order to push the TRA lie that sex isn't fully real and therefore women don't have a right to sex specific spaces.

What are the odds!

For the previous, what, how many decades, it has not been an issue. We didn't need to ask people at the door to "prove" their sex, because we can tell men from women, even if the men are wearing dresses and lippy. If a man insisted on coming intot he WOMEN'S facilities, we could ask him to leave, or report him to staff/security, and know that they would support us. THAT is how to guarantee protection of single-sex spaces.