"Trans people should not be allowed to use women’s showers and changing rooms, proposed NHS guidance says" - Darlington Nurses draft new guidance.

Pfff, away with your logic and reasonable thinking. Don't you know that the only two genders that matter are men and men who call themselves women?

SinnerBoy, because that suggests they aren't actually the woman they think they are. However a penis is a penis and a womb is a womb and there's no getting away from that!

They believe they are entitled to use them so they will use.

Many people believe that, for example, they are allowed to shoplift. Or shout abuse at women in the street. Doesn't make it right.

If it’s made illegal
If we have more police
It can be dealt with

Or just trans people with a little bit of respect for the sexes might work too!

Hopefully this will be clearer

Ah so basically this is the 'males will just do what they want anyway argument'?

Thank goodness that's not how safeguarding normally works.

When it comes to single sex facilities the decent males stay out so the others stand out.

We can come to our own conclusions about the motives of those who don't adhere to basic decency when it comes to the privacy & safety of female people.

I can’t read any of that.

You're never going to get a personal private toilet for one that you can tote around with you everywhere without exception, no.

If you cannot tolerate either a single sex or mixed sex space then yes, I guess you are going to be very limited as to where you can go. I don't know what you expect services to do about that.

@nonbinaryfinery you say you don't feel safe around men OR women. That suggests that something traumatic has happened to you that you need to deal with therapeutically.
If you're non binary, you've made a conscious choice to reject gender stereotypes. But there is no third sex. You're either biologically male or biologically female. You can't choose this, it's just reality. Androgyny has been a thing for many years. Why now has this become something more that's trying to push ageist scientific reality?
Unless you tell people you're non binary there is no reason anyone would know. They will just see you as what you are biologically. A man or a woman. So you use the space that's there for what you are biologically.
Or, as you say, use a third space if that makes you feel safer. There's certainly no reason for you to use the space that's there for the opposite of your biological reality.

But there is no going back. Transwomen exist now in large(ish) numbers. Saying no they can't use the female toilets isn't going to stop them from using the female toilets. They believe they are entitled to use them so they will use. It will never be possible to guarantee there won't be a male in the women's bathrooms anymore because it is not possible to sex-check people at the door. Hence why I said there needs to be individual cubicles for people who want definitive proof that they are not in the same space as a male.

Mixed spaces don't work for 'everybody'. Some people have religious, cultural, trauma, navigating puberty or a host or reasons for not wanting to share intimate facilities with the other sex.

Lol, if the BBC isn't showing an image of the transwoman I can only imagine that in the Isla Bryson sense their image won't be assisting their cause.

Please do your research and actually chat to the intersex community before speaking for us. DSD is commonly used to refer to diagnosic criteria the term preferred is in fact intersex. Depending on your sources and criteria the percentage sits at about 1.5 to as low as 0.001.
I really don’t know what to tell you, the odds aren’t actually that bad and I am here after all? This erasure is something I’m of course familiar with but I was hoping for more from people who are so staunchly for identifying with their assigned sex.
Just because I believe in equal opportunity and spaces for all doesn’t really have anything to do with my sex.

Can't even agree with third spaces without being ridiculed, I tried.

I'm out.

@spannasaurus nevermind how they talk about us... it's what they're doing that's even more troubling.

transcrimeuk.com/

And as currently seen in the Supreme Court -

No one is able to define what ‘living in your acquired gender for at least two years’ actually means.
Also means that person, let’s say Man in this example, has potentially been going into spaces not meant for them (pushing boundaries) for two years prior to obtaining a GRC.
You're not allowed to ask someone if they have a GRC or not .
Plan to life permanently in your new gender. Worked well for Freddy McConnell who went on to birth two children thus making the GRC null and void, shouldn’t it?

The whole thing is a joke dreamt up by people who didn’t think of the implications or problems that may arise.

No one can define gender and what it means. Never happens on here anyway when asked.

Legal fiction is still fiction.

By gender I’m assuming you mean sex?

I'm saying men and women make it unsafe for me to use a public bathroom, so I don't and the only way I can see forward is for third spaces that I know we are never going to get.

It's OK, it was obvious who you were speaking to!

The way people talk about trans people here is disgusting
Please compare how posters on this thread have talked about trans people and the way trans people talk about women. Which disgusts you most?

@nonbinaryfinery

"I want third spaces BECAUSE I DO NOT FEEL SAFE AROUND MEN OR WOMEN"

So are you saying trans people are neither men nor women? Or who do you envisage occupying these third spaces?

I used to. I don't wish anyone any ill will. I just wanna use a public bathroom without someone demanding to know what's in my pants, especially if they're using a camera to post it on social media as if they've just cornered a predator. I just want to be able to relieve myself in a safe place but that doesn't exist right now except in my own home.

I see both sides of the argument, and personally - this is my take on it. If you are transgender but you have had surgery to change your body parts then yes, you should be allowed to be in the showers as your corresponding gender. If you are trans and have not going through the surgery as of yet, then you should be using the showers of your birth gender until your surgery is done and complete. This way, transgender people are not discriminated against but women and men can feel safe in their corresponding showers and bathrooms.

Have deleted as I thought you were the poster posting that and wanted to highlight it more!
Apologies for confusion if you read it before my delete

@HollyKnight if your friend is getting challenged it is precisely because men are now forcing their way into women's facilities, so women are getting suspicious. You say yourself that this is happening "Since all this trans crap has started". If we go back to women's facilities being only for women, and men go back to staying out of them, then her problem will presumably stop.