"Trans people should not be allowed to use women’s showers and changing rooms, proposed NHS guidance says" - Darlington Nurses draft new guidance.

I agree with third space as the way forward. But, as referred to upthread, trans people will not entertain discussion about this because of the hardline stance that if they say they’re women, they’re women, no different to people who were born women and therefore forcing them to use a third space is discriminatory.

it’s an impossible debate because it’s not a debate. I read (on here mostly) that the tide is turning but this NMC probe, and more generally, attitudes outside MN seem to be that even calling for debate makes you a transphobe. I feel very sorry for these nurses and it beggars belief that as well this tribunal they’ll be subjected to a misconduct probe. Misbloodyconduct ffs!!!

Agree with majority, go with the chromosomes and 3rd space sounds sensible. The only time I think there would be difficulty with this is with a TM who actually passes as male using female space - as in theyll probably need to explain their presence/they're really a women. (Especially since it would take years for most places to have the 3rd space.

Not something that'll come up very often, unless you're that women then it's coming up all the time! Not as much of an issue the other way in that men are probably much less likely to be concerned by a women/someone who appears to be a women in their space.

Third space is the answer. A local modern synagogue has a ladies, a gents and a mixed sex option. Each has a changing place. Everybody comfortable.

In contrast, a big local venue has a gents - and an everybody else. That's not the point of separate spaces. The point is to protect women and girls from the male sex. Regardless of how they identify today or dress.

I know there’s a thread following the tribunal that starts tomorrow - don’t want to derail that as it’s focused on the hearings, so resurrecting this thread and apols if I’m doubling up https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/25541349.darlington-nurses-trans-row-face-misconduct-probes/

I can’t believe these poor nurses will also have to endure this NMC probe. I read up thread people saying the tide is turning but is it really? How has it come to this?!

I would be loads better off moving to America then

Where did I say good? Mental health problems I ment?

TaylorBrown · Today 13:22
Think he has some mental health.

You think he has some good mental health????? Ok then...

I know but in general it shouldn't be. appears to be all the men that are little snowflakes about this because they can't get access to womans facilities. To think big nic was getting paid loads as the pm of scotland commiting fraud and all sorts and her HERSELF couldn't even explain what a woman was. I will also be telling my daughters school I don't want her learning about all this stuff and if she has to be removed from class that's fine.
Countries ruined.
Getting worse.
Sometimes I wish I was pm. I would change so many things and deffo wouldnt steal money. I would like to think I'd make the place better.
haha

This isn't just about changing rooms though. My local leisure centre ran a women's only 2 hour swimming slot one evening a week. This had run for a number of years without issue. It was well attended, including by a number of Muslim ladies who felt comfortable to swim then but not at mixed swimming sessions. Even the lifeguards were always women at these sessions.
Then a pre op transwoman started to attend. This person's male genitals were clearly visible in a swimsuit. Said trans woman spent more time parading up and down the poolside than actually swimming, but their presence there meant that the numbers of biological women attending dropped until the session was cancelled due to low attendance.

The leisure centre said that they were unable to ask the trans woman not to attend as that would be discrimination.

So now local women have lost a service.

The changing facilities poolside at this leisure centre are mixed but that did not stop a different issue occurring.

I see this situation as an emperor's new clothes situation that people are afraid to publicly call out. It is not a case of transphobia it is about not wanting to lose the rights that women have spent centuries trying to win. For millennia men told women what they could do and say and just as that had begun to change for the better it seems that men masquerading as women are insistent on carrying on this tradition. I despair.

Then I can't see why a bunch of men who pray on woman should be using the womans bathrooms. This should not be up for discussion.

Historically yes they were predominantly gay men now most of them are straight men who claim to be lesbians.

Think he has some mental health. And he wants to use womans facilities so he can perve on them when in the toilet? Sickening.

I know, I made a boo boo, 🤪

Oops, got my terminology a bit Pete Tong there. It gets so confusing, but then again I’m a woman of a certain age according to Greg Wallace 🤷‍♀️

In all serious I don't know any trans people I have been lucky to avoid them but are trans normally gay?

No not always many are, many aren't.

One that I know (middle aged, formerly married, father of three) accompanied his transition with a statement that he was disappointed that his wife had not joined his journey and was now considering if he was going to be 'a lesbian or a straight women' 🙄. He is of course neither.

No you use male or female. If your born with a dick you use the male toilet as that makes you a man. Even after surgery your still a man. Imagine washing your hands or a young girl washing their hands and there is an 'alledgedly* a 65 yo woman staring at a 5 year old. Disgusting shouldn't even be up for debate. Sick. If I claim to be a teapot does this make me a teapot? No it doesn't. So why do men who claim to be woman think it's acceptable to use the ladies bathroom? People will be scared in public places like train stations or restaurants to even enter the bathroom in fears of getting raped. If your born with a dick end of your a man. Surgery can change hormones but you still entered the world as a man.
In all serious I don't know any trans people I have been lucky to avoid them but are trans normally gay?

@Helleofabore some of those posts on the other thread are shocking .

The problem is, for the activists, that when their demands are based on something false then they need that lie to continue otherwise their demands are shown for what they are, which is that they (the demands) are completely unreasonable. That's why they persist in shaming women for stating simple facts, that every single trans woman is male.

These female nurses should not have been put in this position in the first place.

We have single sex spaces for a reason.

And then, the employer had the temerity, of ousting the women from the space that should have been theirs alone in the first place to accommodate the demands of a single male employee.

It is a good job that Streeting has got involved. We have to keep telling the truth about the fact that these are male demands because women, in spite what the activist say, NEED to have spaces away from the male gaze for our safety and dignity. Women are not lesser humans than males.

@Helleofabore hopefully that will start changing as more people realise what a duplicitous campaign has been run against us, getting into the largest and most influential organisations to provide "antidiscrimination" guidance and "legal" advice, getting into schools to indoctrinate the young and mislead the vulnerable. Silencing, threatening and bullying as standard practice against anyone who speaks the truth and shares their views on safety. I think the smoke screen is starting to dissipate and people will be able to see what's been hidden behind the 'be kind messages' which is a transactivism monolith that has been working in such a terrifyingly calculated and sinister manner.

I also fell into the trap of kindness and it was only as things got worse and worse that I realised how bad the problem is. Thankfully though sanity seems to be returning. Let's hope taking back accurate language on a wider scale will be part of that process.

And you do realise you an go to the loo, especially at work, without your friend being there to hold your hand. 🙄

Gender neutral toilets would and should contain the same. Even from a hygiene point of view, using the facilities and having to unlock a cubicle to access the wash basin for whatever reason is pretty grim. No matter who else is in the toilets at the time.

Yes. It is on threads where sex is really significant to the discussion that the most pressure, abuse and shaming occur. Such as discussing female single sex spaces or female sports.

The shaming is intending to shame people into using the shamer's acceptable list of words which lead to less precise points which can then be easily discredited on the surface. Or it leads to confusion as to what the point even is.

Instead we are expected to use imprecise and inaccurate language. And again, this is so the message can be open to interpretation. Either making it more acceptable language so people who want to pride themselves on being moderate can even read the post, or whatever.

There is a lot of discussion around blunt and harsh language. Calling women who will use that blunt language derogatory labels has become a virtue signalling pastime for even people who declare they support the concept ... just not the 'language'. However, that blunt and very precise language is what moves the very Overton window to allow understanding to grow.

If women cannot accurately discuss the issues that are causing harm, they are effectively silenced. Saying 'the nurses are complaining because a woman is in their changing room and they want that women to be excluded' is a whole lot different to 'the nurses are complaining because a male person is in their changing room and they want that male person to be excluded'. And activists know this very well and there are people who will blindly copy the activist's tactics because they believe that it is righteous behaviour.

Newspeak is vital to the ideology. You cannot define woman and you cannot describe a make person as a male person or a man, otherwise it becomes too obvious what is going on.

The dismantling of language so that you can't express the problem, or indeed provable objective reality, is sinister and entirely intentional. As ever, though, they know who the women are when they throw gendered insults.