My town has really changed

Yes we don’t hear alot about his covid dinner party on here do we?

It's so many things in my opinion, many of which have been mentioned here.

Lack of respect for authority is one - my relative is a teacher and has to put up with all kinds of behaviour from their students far out of the reach of what they should be doing ie teaching. But they are unable to punish or sanction properly and the kids know that. On the other hand when you see politicians breaking their own rules and a serving police officer commits the worst kind of crime why would you respect them?

I've heard the phrase 'poverty of aspiration' and to me it sums up so much of it - I've seen it first hand and once someone is in that cycle of chaotic living/not working/drugs or whatever there isn't much hope. I know someone like this and I dont know how they get out of bed each day with nothing to look forward to, in fact they often dont.

It's easy to blame the government/society etc but I think there's a real lack of personal responsibility as well that wasn't there when I was growing up. You see it in everything from the obesity crisis to social media - in fact I think social media and our 24 hour access to the wider world through the internet is another problem in itself.

Pardon.
Our children are well-mannered and perform well in school. This has been achieved without the use of corporal punishment, such as belts, canes, slippers, standing in the corner, shouting, or making threats.
It’s also a fact that a significant portion of taxpayers' money is being used to support the baby boomer generation, who, along with late Gen X, own 80% of all property in the UK. Hence the extortionate cost of the remaining 20%.
They also take up a disproportional amount of public services such as social care, and NHS.

There is no money to socially regen the towns when it has to be given elsewhere.

Yeah some towns, cities and villages were wilfully destroyed by Margaret Thatcher in the 80s. Communities ruined and no such thing as society and an individual and materialistic society emerged. A dependence on benefits and drug addiction became rampant.

Many places thrived. However, post 2008 crash/2010s austerity/Covid/unprecedented immigration levels, most of the country is now going through what the losers of Thatcherism did then. The places struggling then are just well used to it now.

Sounds like my seaside town in the 90s, to be honest. The holidaymakers dried up and the place went to ruin. Boarding houses turned into bed sets and "undesirables" such as newly released prisoners where encouraged to settle here upon release. But of course, no additional council nor police support so it just caused huge amounts of anti-social behaviour, thefts, robberies, street crime, drug dealing, drunkenness, properties being wrecked and burned out, etc. An entire part of the, once very nice, town basically turned into a no go area for locals. Entire popular shopping streets closed down with just a few dodgy shops remaining. So I don't believe it's due to covid. Our town was wrecked 30 years ago! Perhaps that kind of thing is just spreading more these days as the undesirables "infect" other towns.

Kids have been mollycoddled for decades and grow up with no boundaries.

Boomers/maybe Gen X probably the last generation to grow up with firm parenting and a societal understanding that actions have consequences. You feared the police. You feared your parents. You respected elders. Not that this was without it's issues but that's how it generally was.

The landscape has changed since. Liberalism took over, the traditional family unit has been eroded, 'human rights' has become a synonym for a 'do what you want' society and the police have been neutered and are more fearful of 'the youth' than they are of them.

It's like a science fiction now from 30 years ago of a dystopia future of anarchy.

A lot of it is down to the 'No Judgement' feeling that seems to be on the rise.

An Op may come on to describe some bad behaviour and most of the replies will tell her not to judge, that she may only be seeing a snapshot or some other such soft shite.

If a child is naughty in school or in public, posters will encourage the view that it isn't simply a child being naughty-they will have some syndrome or other and shouldn't be judged-even if they are putting others in danger or spoiling an experience such as a meal out.

Bring back some judging and shame because some people can't behave well unless an element of fear provokes them into doing so.

Of course, it won't happen because the prevailing view is that there must be no judgement. We've seen that on this thread and the same dangerous eejits will be along to repeat it before the thread is full.

If only they could be shamed for their views-views which means society has fallen apart.

I too feel that the distorted filtered image social media projects has some part to play in this. Perhaps seeing YouTubers earring lots of money and living life in such a materialistic way creates a sense of futility that real life doesn’t equate to what they’re seeing on screen. It’s an extreme form of escapism and if that’s all you’ve really known since being a young teen then it’s difficult to shift that mindset.

In 00’s movies, hackers and gamers tended to be portrayed as reclusive loners with messy bedrooms living off fast food, energy drinks and snacks. Maybe this has now manifested into the mainstream thus meaning any decline outside of peoples immediate circle is widely ignored?

The personal responsibility is all well and good, but it's cause and effect. People, at least many, react to their surroundings.

If cutbacks have led to the streets being cleaned less, bins emptied less, parks and green spaces not being maintained, then it leads to less pride being taken. It leads to a culture of people dumping more rubbish and then things get worse. It doesn't excuse asb or crime but it contributes towards it. Same as cutbacks to the police.

Policies have consequences.

But its cultural as well. People play videos on public transport with no headphones. If they're that ignorant then they'll throw their rubbish on the floor without a care in the world as well. Manners needs to be on the school curriculum.

Corbyn, anyone?

Yes, I would like to see much tighter controls around kids access to social media

I lived there in the 1960s to the 1980s It was a lovely country town with good markets and a very nice river. The shops were all occupied and booming.
St John's old railway station was very quaint. I did my nursing training at Bedford Hospital in 1981.
I went back there a couple of years ago to see a relative and I'm never going back. It looked like the apocalypse happened.

One thing that could really help towns is taxing online purchases and reducing business rates for shops. Free parking would also help.

Absolutely - and largely champagne socialists, there’s a glut of people on here that probably live in areas that are completely unaffected by these problems, have an idealised “just be kind” attitude, sign a few petitions, recycle some yoghurt pots and spend all their lives without any real comprehension of reality for much of the country. Yet somehow they think they know how issues should be solved and how people should react to things that are actual reality for them rather than a few soundbite a on social media. You would think, as they all seem to love all things French they would have learned how shouting “let them eat cake” typically plays out!

This!i
also think social media has given young people a distorted view of what realistically is attainable in life.
I think many give up on their aspirations when they realise the hill to climb can be a steep one and with many obstacles.

@shockeditellyou I'm actually neither right wing or left wing - but agree on this-

I also think this is absolutely crazy. We absolutely should be gatekeeping NHS services, with the exception of vaccinations and other interventions deemed necessary for public health.

I think there are two approaches to this - the left wing has this very paternalistic attitude that appears to take the view that people living in shit towns couldn't possibly be responsible for any part of the shitness, and it's all due to underlying social ills/lack of funding/need to understand some trauma. Whereas the right wing expects a bit more personal responsibility and that there's a limit to how much you can blame the wider society for things being shit. And I think that's right - it's very easy to give people a cop out and say it's all shit because the Tories implemented austerity. Well, fine. But you can still put your rubbish in the bin even with austerity, and there's no excuse for living in a shithole. No matter what the reasons, your neighbours shouldn't have to put up with it, and wider society shouldn't have to bend over backwards to sort it out.

I think the loss of censure and shame is generally a bad thing - people should be ashamed of bad behaviour in public. And I agree that the loss of a strong male identity is not good for wider society.

Some British culture and values off the top of my head

Fairness - manifested in many different ways, including our tendency to queue rather than shove our way to the front
Justice applied equally to all, no one above the law
Equality for women in society and the home
Politeness and respect for other people
Love for animals & abhorrence of animal cruelty
Reverence for nature and the countryside. Walking is a favourite British pastime.
Charity and public service

A lot of these things are in decline.

In my town (relatively deprived for the county, seaside), the picture is mixed. Walking through this morning, reasonably clean, no visible asb (at 10 am at least) and a decent number of shoppers. One of the long term empty shops is being cleared out and wooden shelving taken inside - a hopeful sign. Plenty of people here with me in the m&s cafe.
But shoplifting has become endemic, to the point that all the bigger shops have blocked off at least one of their exit points. Like most seaside towns, we have a lot of properties belonging to rehab charities and the station area, never salubrious, gives a shocking and embarrassing first impression of the town - 24 hour open drug dealing, asb and fighting. Until tennish years ago there was no street homelessness at all and now it is very visible.

It’s going to be very interesting to see how this steady decline progresses over the next 5-10 years in these towns. What bothers me is how year on year this situation is becoming the norm for a whole generation, young children growing up in horrible rough areas regardless of whether their parents are decent or drug addicts they’re still living and seeing this grim reality and knowing no different. Their expectations and dreams are going to be shaped by their surroundings, it’s very sad that this is how the country is now for too many.

MN is very left leaning, and the left despises patriotism in any form.

Agree with your opinions on this - I also feel 15 is very different from 11 - surprised these 2 age groups are hanging out together

It is, but it's people describing their lived experiences. Life in this country at the present time is depressing and I think lots of people are suffering low level (or even not so low level) depression and anxiety because of it. In turn I think that leads us to follow a selfish path to try and find our way through it, we want to pull up our drawbridges, think of ourselves. We see the dilapidated state of our towns and cities so don't want to go there which leads to shops closing so even less reason to go there and they fall into more decay. As a population we are tired, depressed, many of us are poor because of COL crisis, and we see nothing getting better.

I am currently at the house I grew up in, northern city. The house is in a poor postcode and a mile or so one side is an area fairly infamous for its issues (crime, disorder and streets of rubbish), blamed on immigration. Around a mile to the other side the area is just locally fairly well known and has equal crime, and what looks like fly tipping on most gardens, streets, but is the local residents' rubbish. Both areas schools would not be a preference of the majority. This area is solidly full of locals, majority with a history of family in the areas. No difference in outcome despite disparity in ethnicity. Unusually the house I am in is on a lovely road, no rubbish, respect for neighbours, but actually has a range of ethnic backgrounds- I recognise all are private homes which may make a difference.
I have no answer as to how this happened, but it's happened across what could be described as differing cultural backgrounds, in different cultural areas, so feel it's British society as a whole that has changed perhaps slowly but we now open our eyes, perhaps revisit areas, and see a massive change from years ago.
As a quite young child I shamefully dropped my bus ticket on the street and was immediately stopped by an oldish (to me anyway) man and told to pick it up - I was so embarrassed and did do as asked, hoping he didn't know my school uniform, or my parents (never did it again either!). I would never nowadays dare to suggest any child picked up its rubbish. Last year, in a large shopping centre I saw a group of kids between around 11-15 running through and spitting on clothes and furniture in as many shops as they could - frightening folk and effing and blinding and threatening the security trying to get them to leave. I stayed well out of the way - it still baffles me as to why this was entertaining for the kids as there seemed no rhyme or reason to it - not even lifting stuff to use or sell (not that that's ok of course).
It's not going to change back any time soon - I'm not sure where will be safe for my grandkids in future let alone nice to live. I have lately started having to go to York a few days per month and don't see my home town's issues at all there, though obviously I only see limited parts of it - but maybe we can have hope for some areas.