Page 2 | To think immigration will always mean that we have high levels of inequality?

Bumpitybumper · 2024-12-02T11:53:16+00:00

Just looking at the latest immigration statistics and it seems like nearly a million people have come to the UK over the past year. Most are from countries that are poorer than the UK and many people have come with very little or nothing in terms of financial resources and are unable to speak English. I am also constantly reading articles and posts from people on MN about how inequality should be lowered or completely eradicated in the UK. These articles and posts always seem to skirt over immigration and never really address the obvious fact that it is going to take an immigrant a long time (sometimes several generations) to be in the same position as someone that has lived in the UK for many decades. AIBU to assume that inequality and immigration are strongly linked and no matter what government initiatives are put in place then it is unrealistic to expect inequality to reduce when we have such huge levels of immigration? Even if you tackle inequality for the people that are currently here then another million people could come next year that would hugely impact the statistics.

KrisAkabusi · 02/12/2024 12:37

Most are from countries that are poorer than the UK and many people have come with very little or nothing in terms of financial resources and are unable to speak English.

What's your evidence for this? As previous posters have pointed out, there's a higher level of education among immigrants than the general population. The numbers also include hundreds of thousands of students that can clearly speak English and have the financial resources to fund their studies.

Katyfour · 02/12/2024 12:35

Hmmm not sure about that. The immigrants I know are hardworking and successful. And our education system is on its knees - better to be had in countries perceived as "worse".

DM had an operation last month. The nurse, the anesthetist, the surgeon and the person bringing the food were all immigrants. I say this not because the of the colour of anyone's skin, but because they all spoke (good) English with accents showing that it wasn't their first language. But all were skilled, polite and hardworking and the operation was great. It was a private hospital, however.

BIossomtoes · 02/12/2024 12:33

they are statistically much more likely to be under employed and in sectors that don't pay well.

Can you point us to those statistics, please? A link would be cool. Cheers.

Original poster

Bumpitybumper · 02/12/2024 12:31

StormingNorman · 02/12/2024 12:26

This proves it…there is literally nothing some people won’t blame immigrants for.

Inequality is more the result of hereditary wealth and capitalism.

I'm not blaming them for inequality. I am merely pointing out that the stats will include them.

For example a migrant child entering the country in their teens will be at a huge disadvantage when compared to someone that has grown up in the UK and followed the curriculum that they will all be tested on for major exams. Many people read the stats on educational inequality though and think it's possible to reduce or remove it. Patently this would be very difficult, if not impossible in all cases. It's silly to pretend otherwise.

OP posts:

Original poster

Bumpitybumper · 02/12/2024 12:27

poetryandwine · 02/12/2024 12:14

The link between inequality and immigration is tenuous at best, OP.

I hate to break it to you, but this was net immigration. However for 2023 (2024 figures are incomplete) just under 62,500 immigrants were refugees.

For 2024 we have about 450,000 HE students counted as immigrants. They must pass a demanding English competency test in order to get their student visa, and they pay frankly extortionate tuition fees. It is sadly accurate to say that they are propping up our once proud HE sector.

Then of course we must import many health care professionals, particularly but by no means exclusively nurses.

Aside from refugees and the small number of others granted humanitarian status, every immigrant is here for a reason. You can no longer buy your way in as an investor but you can come on a Global Talent Visa which has a very, very high bar. Almost everyone I know on a GTV speaks excellent English. All are higher rate taxpayers.

You can come on a work visa as the HCPs do, you can come on a student visa, etc. You can of course bring your immediate family.

It is true that for a variety of reasons, in the past members of certain ethnic groups have been over-represented in lower income brackets. It is my strong impression that at present many people tend to confuse the concepts of ‘immigrant’ and ‘refugee’.

But I would welcome an explanation of how you reached your conclusion.

I know it's net migration. I don't know why you think I would be disappointed by this? Also it's obvious that immigrants are here because of our immigration policy. I don't really know why you have felt the need to breakdown the fact that so many have visas etc. Of course this is the case! I wasn't suggesting that all immigrants were here illegally or were asylum seekers.

My point was most immigrants come from less wealthy countries and don't come with lots of financial assets. They may well have degrees but they are statistically much more likely to be under employed and in sectors that don't pay well. Not all degrees are transferable between countries. I find it bizarre that people on this thread seem to suggest that a million people entering the country with the obvious disadvantages of not having a lot of money, not being able to speak the language and struggling to find employment that fully utilises their skills and education wouldn't be a source of inequality?

OP posts:

StormingNorman · 02/12/2024 12:26

This proves it…there is literally nothing some people won’t blame immigrants for.

Inequality is more the result of hereditary wealth and capitalism.

Original poster

Bumpitybumper · 02/12/2024 12:18

icecreamsundaeno5 · 02/12/2024 12:03

The Equality Trust do research into exactly this.

If you are genuinely interested, you could look it up.

But the general answer is that immigration does not significantly impact levels of inequality. For example, big increases in inequality in the 70s and 80s despite net immigration being low.

Immigration increased in the 90s and 2000s but inequality stayed stable.

35% of immigrants have a degree (compared to I think 25% of British people) so not really accurate to paint them as a drag on equality - they are more educated and skilled than we are, and fill skills gaps in public services.

I don't think that research really addresses the question at hand.

We have never seen immigration into this country before in terms of the number of people involved and the background of those entering our country. Previously the numbers have been much lower and more weighted towards skilled migrants and those from EU countries. Over recent years this has undoubtedly changed. It is completely logical that this will have a massive impact on inequality.