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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is this sufficient for 3 kids?

214 replies

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 01/12/2024 20:57

apologies it’s long.

Posted before got a bit of a wake up call in terms of my budget. id love another child and time is ticking for me age wise, so it’s starting to be now or never. The question is can we afford it. I’d like a bit of impartial help when everything is laid out, because sometimes if feel like yeah, our income is fine (I’ve put it on that min income calculator thing online and we’re a few hundred quid up a week)

Ive worked really hard with DH do a budget, it’s below. We have 2 dc, is a third viable here? This is the here and now too, we have scope to get better jobs in the medium term and bolster our earnings. We have a small 4 bed house right now and a 7 seater car, so the ‘big’ things are already taken care of. Though we’d likely need to upsize in the future.

our gross income is £110k per year base. Bonuses can vary between £10-£15k, last year was a good year and we got £20k but that’s not the norm. 3-5% annual pay rises.

monthly income 6,400 salary + £170 (child benefit)
our living expenses (mortgage, car insurance, life insurance, food, fuel, household bills) £3130. Our mortgage is £1350, I’m confident this will go down when our fix is up though.
child savings £170 (CB)+ £100
£180 credit card (0% not too many more payments this is a mix of some work on the house and a root canal I needed)
£60 mobile phones
£500 childcare (this will reduce to about £350 in the new year)
hobbies- £75 (dance, football and swimming)
£90 car insurance
£100 days out
savings £1000
that leaves us then about £1000 which we then split equally between us and the basically give ourselves a personal allowance of about £100 a week, basically £800 a month for personal stuff. We buy kids clothes from the personal allowance as well as stuff for ourselves, haircuts etc.
which should leave about £150/£200 for us to use a sink fund for any unexpected events, if there’s none then it gets saved.

for another child we’d save the additional child benefit for that child plus an additional £50 a month. Worked out that way in the investment account that they have it could be about £25k at 18, to use for uni/ whatever (it’s the same as what we do currently)

private school isn’t a priority for us, we’ve several grammar schools around us and if that’s not a viable option we live close to one of the best state schools in the area.

we like our holidays but I shop around and I’m confident I can find holidays for 5 for not too much more than we pay now (I’ve checked)

what do we think?

OP posts:
SapphireOpal · 02/12/2024 08:22

There is quite a bit you haven't explicitly budgeted for as far as I can see - birthdays/christmas, home maintenance, car maintenance just off the top of my head. Sure you can afford them, but you don't just have £££ "personal spends" - all that stuff is coming out too. Just budget for them, then you'll know how much you've ACTUALLY got as personal spends.

Agree with a PP who said don't buy kids clothes out of your allowance. Anyone I've ever known who does this, the mum ends up buying all.the kids clothes, so she effectively gets less to spend on herself and that's not fair.

Potentiallyplausible · 02/12/2024 08:12

Yes, you can. You have a huge salary, a four-bed house and a seven-seater car.

kiraric · 02/12/2024 07:48

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 01/12/2024 22:15

I think it must be subsidised by the council or something because it’s soo soo much cheaper than the other centres.

with funded hrs it’s just £7 a day. Food included. After school wrap til 5:30 is like £10 on top. It’s linked to a lovely school too, so the facilities that they have are wonderful. A pool, soft play, vegetables garden, all the school grounds and various play areas, school rabbits and chickens.

So you couldn't afford childcare in your area except for this one place?

This is what I think is the spanner in the works.

There was a place like this near us a few years ago. Council pulled the funding. A lot of parents with a lot of problems because no where else was as comparably priced.

Local government is under so much pressure at the moment.

I would want to know that I could make it work paying full whack if I had to

RosesAndHellebores · 02/12/2024 07:45

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 02/12/2024 07:24

I guess it depends what type of masters degree you’re doing a stem one or an arts one.

ahrc find some masters degrees but it is rare, college scholarships also exist at a university level. Then I think if you’re doing an arts masters, you’ve got to be really honest work yourself and ask why- how will this benefit me and my career or is this learning for the sake of learning? Don’t get me wrong there is nothing wrong with learning for the sake of learning, BUT should it be done in lieu of a job, or something along side it. It’s about the opportunity cost too.

i have several friends who have done various science masters and phds, all of which have been funded. The tone from there is if you have to self fund, it’s not worth doing or you’re not the right person. Unlike humanities where you needed a 1st to even have a whiff of funding, many of my friends had 2:1s and some even 2;2s and secured phd and masters funding, especially in medical sciences as you apply to basically a programme of research.

Crikey, no learning for the love of learning in your world then. DS's Masters wasn't paid for, his PhD was partially funded. Well worth it for him. He is an academic and turned his thesis into a monograph, rated 4*. My employer funded Prof quals for me and there was an option of working up the dissertation to a Masters. DH paid for it for my 50th 😀

jeaux90 · 02/12/2024 07:39

Them getting older (teens) is more expensive and you need more space so this comes down to what kind of lifestyles

I have found, I needed an extension to my house to create two living spaces assuming you don't want to be in the same room as the Xbox and you don't agree with this stuff in their bedrooms

Expectation of birthday and Christmas presents are higher as they enter the deep joy that is social media.

Extra tuition if it goes Pete tong at school, cars, university fees as they get older.

Only you can decide if 3 is workable. And that comes down to lifestyle.

I chose 1 as a lone parent, but I wanted my DD to go to private school etc

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 02/12/2024 07:37

Bewilderingposts · 02/12/2024 07:27

These kind of posts are so weird to me. You're obviously intelligent, financially savvy, well paid, have a good work set up, live somewhere with excellent services, and with enough wiggle room in your budget so it's blindingly obvious you can afford this. Why come here unless for validation? And why do you need the approval of a bunch of strangers? If it's a rebuff to naysayers on your other thread why not post there?

Like others say, this is all very (from your info, unnecessarily) financially focused and I would be seeking out advice about the impact of a third on family dynamics, mental health, practicalities and logistics.

I think finances are the only real tangible point I have, perhaps naively I was thinking, if we’re sound financially everything else work itself out?

i am really interested in the family dynamics though, particularly if ‘middle child’ syndrome is real. Because I’ve heard a lot of, if you have 3 you have to have 4

OP posts:
Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 02/12/2024 07:29

TrippTover · 01/12/2024 22:44

Yeah. They definitely get more tricky and complex the older they get! But then I guess eventually they will then be going out independently once they’re teens if you live somewhere not remote, so these things go in phases, just like the nursery years.

I think it comes down to lifestyle, as another PP said, as obviously you can afford to have another child on paper. And not just your lifestyle - the lifestyle you want your kids to have too. Eg time for play dates, clubs etc - hard around 2 full time jobs. So lifestyle should be a massive consideration, not just the finances.

I guess it’s lifestyle I’ve no real gauge for. As a teen I wasn’t really allowed hobbies or to go out with friends, there was 2 of us, and we lived pretty remotely. My mum didn’t really want to take me anywhere- It was awful. I had to rely on friends parents and you could tell it irritated them.

when they’re young hobbies have to be Friday or weekends. As they are close in age things like swim they are at the same class, they do the same activities so it’s not too bad. Tbh I’d just hope we’d be able to manage when they are older

OP posts:
Bewilderingposts · 02/12/2024 07:27

These kind of posts are so weird to me. You're obviously intelligent, financially savvy, well paid, have a good work set up, live somewhere with excellent services, and with enough wiggle room in your budget so it's blindingly obvious you can afford this. Why come here unless for validation? And why do you need the approval of a bunch of strangers? If it's a rebuff to naysayers on your other thread why not post there?

Like others say, this is all very (from your info, unnecessarily) financially focused and I would be seeking out advice about the impact of a third on family dynamics, mental health, practicalities and logistics.

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 02/12/2024 07:24

RosesAndHellebores · 02/12/2024 06:22

@Newnamenewnamenewnamenew please tell me about funded Masters degrees. There wasn't funding for mine or DS's. 2010 and 2017. DD hit lucky and did her teacher training via the apprenticeship route but whilst ds had some funding for his PhD we still had to help a bit

I guess it depends what type of masters degree you’re doing a stem one or an arts one.

ahrc find some masters degrees but it is rare, college scholarships also exist at a university level. Then I think if you’re doing an arts masters, you’ve got to be really honest work yourself and ask why- how will this benefit me and my career or is this learning for the sake of learning? Don’t get me wrong there is nothing wrong with learning for the sake of learning, BUT should it be done in lieu of a job, or something along side it. It’s about the opportunity cost too.

i have several friends who have done various science masters and phds, all of which have been funded. The tone from there is if you have to self fund, it’s not worth doing or you’re not the right person. Unlike humanities where you needed a 1st to even have a whiff of funding, many of my friends had 2:1s and some even 2;2s and secured phd and masters funding, especially in medical sciences as you apply to basically a programme of research.

OP posts:
eakjoy · 02/12/2024 07:23

This is just turning into the last thread, with you having an answer for everything and not really considering what people are saying.

We can't promise you that you'll have 3 kids and have the holidays you want which is the crux of it right? Only you know the earning potential and risks in your family.

RosesAndHellebores · 02/12/2024 06:22

@Newnamenewnamenewnamenew please tell me about funded Masters degrees. There wasn't funding for mine or DS's. 2010 and 2017. DD hit lucky and did her teacher training via the apprenticeship route but whilst ds had some funding for his PhD we still had to help a bit

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 01/12/2024 23:22

RosesAndHellebores · 01/12/2024 23:06

My only regret in life is not having a third child. But the teenage years are tough and I might not have managed to keep working full time if there'd been three. Also don't just assume it will be one degree. There may be Masters and PhDs too.

However, you comment @Newnamenewnamenewnamenew that you can't imagine retiring before 70. I might have said the same at 40. At 64 I have to pace and get much more tired. Planning to retire next year.

I’d also say with post grad education, it needs to be funded or honestly one needs to consider if it’s worthwhile (sadly speaking from experience)

OP posts:
PerditaLaChien · 01/12/2024 23:15

Depends what you want.

My dc are a little older now and want to do their hobbies - music, dance, sport, all expensive. Think lessons, equipment, exams/tests, shows, tournaments. All cost loads.

Plus wanting more expensive clothes/shoes. Not fancy fancy just less willing to wear supermarket stuff.

Extra costs at christmas. It can really add up.

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 01/12/2024 23:12

RosesAndHellebores · 01/12/2024 23:06

My only regret in life is not having a third child. But the teenage years are tough and I might not have managed to keep working full time if there'd been three. Also don't just assume it will be one degree. There may be Masters and PhDs too.

However, you comment @Newnamenewnamenewnamenew that you can't imagine retiring before 70. I might have said the same at 40. At 64 I have to pace and get much more tired. Planning to retire next year.

every member of my and dh’s family who’ve retired have then drastically gone down hill, I don’t think we’d keep working in some capacity for a bit

OP posts:
vladimirVsvolodymr · 01/12/2024 23:08

My kids are 11, 9 and 3.5. We had that gap between two and three because we couldn't look after three small children, childcare fees and just for our sanity.

My 11 year old does soccer on Monday nights, rugby Wednesday nights, Taekwondo Thursday nights, rugby training/matches Saturday mornings and soccer matches on Sundays and swimming on Sunday evenings.
He recently started competitive swimming so training is going to be another day of the week as well.

My 9 year old does taekwondo on Thursdays, rugby, soccer, swimming on Saturdays. Come Saturday evening, we're all exhausted.

My 3 year old doesn't do any activity yet. She's due to start swimming when she turns 5. Technically she only costs us clothes due to being a different sex.

I would budget for a cleaner and even get some laundry (bed linens) laundered externally to reduce the workload.
A few people have said up thread that three kids is a different ball game and I agree. My house was quiet with two but not anymore.
Come next year, I'll have one starting primary, one in upper primary and one starting secondary. Wish me luck!
I didn't mention the financial aspect as it seems to be covered already. Goodluck with your decision.

RosesAndHellebores · 01/12/2024 23:06

My only regret in life is not having a third child. But the teenage years are tough and I might not have managed to keep working full time if there'd been three. Also don't just assume it will be one degree. There may be Masters and PhDs too.

However, you comment @Newnamenewnamenewnamenew that you can't imagine retiring before 70. I might have said the same at 40. At 64 I have to pace and get much more tired. Planning to retire next year.

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 01/12/2024 23:04

OakleyStreetisnotinChelsea · 01/12/2024 22:48

What you are really asking is whether you can maintain your current standard of living with 3.

What do you want from life? What's most important to you?

You can make budgets and look logically all your want but realistically, of course you can afford another child with your income. So do you want to?

We have 3 and we were on less than half your income when we had our children. Less expensive area I assume given your mortgage as ours is a heck of a lot less but still. Mine are all teens now and we still earn a little less than you but we're close in income now. We have a nice house, nice holidays and enjoy ourselves. They are a joy. But there was never a doubt about the third, before we had them it was just that he didn't exist yet rather than whether we would or not.

What do I want?

to live a good life, make memories, have good holidays

OP posts:
Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 01/12/2024 23:02

MyrtleStrumpet · 01/12/2024 23:00

Right now you won't get child benefit for a third child but this may change.

It reads like you want another child, so have it.

No you can get child benefit for 3+ children it’s child tax credit you can’t get if you’ve got more than 2

OP posts:
MyrtleStrumpet · 01/12/2024 23:00

Right now you won't get child benefit for a third child but this may change.

It reads like you want another child, so have it.

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 01/12/2024 22:56

TrippTover · 01/12/2024 22:53

For example OP, any chance of you both going down to 4 days a week. A few families I know do this. One person takes Mondays off and the other Friday for example. Frees up those days for the kids’ after school activities/chill time/family time and reduces any nursery bills!

We already both do 4 days a week but we do it as 10 in 9 so an alternating lieu day every other week. We did it to reduce bills but it works so well, can’t see us going back to normal hrs

OP posts:
Christmaseason · 01/12/2024 22:54

Yes it’s enough.

TrippTover · 01/12/2024 22:53

TrippTover · 01/12/2024 22:44

Yeah. They definitely get more tricky and complex the older they get! But then I guess eventually they will then be going out independently once they’re teens if you live somewhere not remote, so these things go in phases, just like the nursery years.

I think it comes down to lifestyle, as another PP said, as obviously you can afford to have another child on paper. And not just your lifestyle - the lifestyle you want your kids to have too. Eg time for play dates, clubs etc - hard around 2 full time jobs. So lifestyle should be a massive consideration, not just the finances.

For example OP, any chance of you both going down to 4 days a week. A few families I know do this. One person takes Mondays off and the other Friday for example. Frees up those days for the kids’ after school activities/chill time/family time and reduces any nursery bills!

RomainingToBeSeen · 01/12/2024 22:50

Money-wise it seems that you've done your sums and can cover everything at the moment.

I'd just suggest that time-wise it might be different as the DC get older. Can you manage when you have to try to juggle football, dance, swimming lessons, rugby, parties, drama class, music lessons or whatever else your DC might be into? When they are little it's easy but in my experience it's harder as they get older and want to do different things.

Also, as a PP mentioned, teenagers are very expensive. School trips, food bills, driving lessons, tech, clothes, trainers, hobbies, university, uniform... the list goes on and that's before you factor in adult prices for holidays, days out etc.

allthatfalafel · 01/12/2024 22:49

TrippTover · 01/12/2024 22:44

Yeah. They definitely get more tricky and complex the older they get! But then I guess eventually they will then be going out independently once they’re teens if you live somewhere not remote, so these things go in phases, just like the nursery years.

I think it comes down to lifestyle, as another PP said, as obviously you can afford to have another child on paper. And not just your lifestyle - the lifestyle you want your kids to have too. Eg time for play dates, clubs etc - hard around 2 full time jobs. So lifestyle should be a massive consideration, not just the finances.

This, I think this is way more important than the money aspect.

My friend was in a similar position and they had a third child who was born with various disabilities (they had no clue). It completely turned all their lives upside down and although the 2 older children are wonderful with him, they've had a very different childhood since he was born. Not just from the money aspect, but the time and sacrifices of not being able to go to places, having to turn down invites to things etc. because it just doesn't work from a practical perspective.

Not saying this would happen to you of course, but regardless your time is going to be split more with more children.

OakleyStreetisnotinChelsea · 01/12/2024 22:48

What you are really asking is whether you can maintain your current standard of living with 3.

What do you want from life? What's most important to you?

You can make budgets and look logically all your want but realistically, of course you can afford another child with your income. So do you want to?

We have 3 and we were on less than half your income when we had our children. Less expensive area I assume given your mortgage as ours is a heck of a lot less but still. Mine are all teens now and we still earn a little less than you but we're close in income now. We have a nice house, nice holidays and enjoy ourselves. They are a joy. But there was never a doubt about the third, before we had them it was just that he didn't exist yet rather than whether we would or not.