Page 6 | Is this sufficient for 3 kids?

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 2024-12-01T20:57:50+00:00

apologies it’s long. Posted before got a bit of a wake up call in terms of my budget. id love another child and time is ticking for me age wise, so it’s starting to be now or never. The question is can we afford it. I’d like a bit of impartial help when everything is laid out, because sometimes if feel like yeah, our income is fine (I’ve put it on that min income calculator thing online and we’re a few hundred quid up a week) Ive worked really hard with DH do a budget, it’s below. We have 2 dc, is a third viable here? This is the here and now too, we have scope to get better jobs in the medium term and bolster our earnings. We have a small 4 bed house right now and a 7 seater car, so the ‘big’ things are already taken care of. Though we’d likely need to upsize in the future. our gross income is £110k per year base. Bonuses can vary between £10-£15k, last year was a good year and we got £20k but that’s not the norm. 3-5% annual pay rises. monthly income 6,400 salary + £170 (child benefit) our living expenses (mortgage, car insurance, life insurance, food, fuel, household bills) £3130. Our mortgage is £1350, I’m confident this will go down when our fix is up though. child savings £170 (CB)+ £100 £180 credit card (0% not too many more payments this is a mix of some work on the house and a root canal I needed) £60 mobile phones £500 childcare (this will reduce to about £350 in the new year) hobbies- £75 (dance, football and swimming) £90 car insurance £100 days out savings £1000 that leaves us then about £1000 which we then split equally between us and the basically give ourselves a personal allowance of about £100 a week, basically £800 a month for personal stuff. We buy kids clothes from the personal allowance as well as stuff for ourselves, haircuts etc. which should leave about £150/£200 for us to use a sink fund for any unexpected events, if there’s none then it gets saved. for another child we’d save the additional child benefit for that child plus an additional £50 a month. Worked out that way in the investment account that they have it could be about £25k at 18, to use for uni/ whatever (it’s the same as what we do currently) private school isn’t a priority for us, we’ve several grammar schools around us and if that’s not a viable option we live close to one of the best state schools in the area. we like our holidays but I shop around and I’m confident I can find holidays for 5 for not too much more than we pay now (I’ve checked) what do we think?

Nolegusta · 02/12/2024 12:21

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 01/12/2024 22:24

Not arsey or goady (tone is hard to convey via message/text) but what do you want for your life?

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Except it IS most definitely arsey and goady.

Original poster

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 02/12/2024 12:18

eakjoy · 02/12/2024 09:34

OP have you considered why it is you want ala 3rd? Usually threads like this show which way your heart is going when you start to defend and excuse etc (not a criticism, I think threads like this help to expose your desire!) so you're worried about finances etc and presumably can see the benefits to stopping at 2, but what is it that makes you want 3? I think only then can you weigh up against what you will lose (ie money, lol). Just to check it is somewhat rational, because being broody can be very hormonal and not terribly rational, and also, temporary. I was very broody for a 3rd and probably could have written threads like yours back then, but we weren't as well off back then, now with teens (and more money) I am very relieved as I recognise it was just hormones for me, but that's the benefit of hindsight!

I wish I could answer that in a profound way, but all I can say is that I really yearn for another child. I’d always envisioned 3. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m so blessed to have what I have and I need to remind myself at times, that I’m now living the life that I once dreamed. I admit I’m not probably being the most rationale about it, hence why I want to check the finances are ok. Because then we can work everything else out.

I can list off the benefits of stopping at 2 and that’s what I’ll comfort myself with, if for whatever reason it’s not meant to be. I am worried I’m too old for another child or I might not conceive, we’ve been trying for 6 months now. But it just doesn’t stop the want or the yearning. My children would also love another sibling

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Original poster

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 02/12/2024 11:59

Sweetpeasaremadeforbees · 02/12/2024 10:06

I don't understand why you've started another identical thread on this. I was on the other one and I think people were pretty straight with you, yes financially affording another one now is completely doable but don't forget they do get a lot more expensive when teenagers and also the third could have disabilities which would throw everything up in the air.

But from what I remember you basically said that financially helping grown up children was not a priority and it would do them good to have to pay for everything themselves. You seemed very sure that financially everything was sorted so why on earth are you asking the question again, did you not like the answers?

well, before I got a bit of a wake up call budget wise, because well our budget was off and wonky so actual affordability was up in the air.

no I definitely want to provide for my kids, hence why we save for them, at 18 they should have about £25k in their investments that if they go to uni away we’ll fund with that (my advice would be stay home and use the money later but it’s up to them)

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Blueisacolour · 02/12/2024 11:02

vladimirVsvolodymr · 01/12/2024 23:08

My kids are 11, 9 and 3.5. We had that gap between two and three because we couldn't look after three small children, childcare fees and just for our sanity.

My 11 year old does soccer on Monday nights, rugby Wednesday nights, Taekwondo Thursday nights, rugby training/matches Saturday mornings and soccer matches on Sundays and swimming on Sunday evenings.
He recently started competitive swimming so training is going to be another day of the week as well.

My 9 year old does taekwondo on Thursdays, rugby, soccer, swimming on Saturdays. Come Saturday evening, we're all exhausted.

My 3 year old doesn't do any activity yet. She's due to start swimming when she turns 5. Technically she only costs us clothes due to being a different sex.

I would budget for a cleaner and even get some laundry (bed linens) laundered externally to reduce the workload.
A few people have said up thread that three kids is a different ball game and I agree. My house was quiet with two but not anymore.
Come next year, I'll have one starting primary, one in upper primary and one starting secondary. Wish me luck!
I didn't mention the financial aspect as it seems to be covered already. Goodluck with your decision.

This is a post I'd take notice of. We had 3 on a third of your income so financially it's simply about your priorities. We prioritised kids experiences and activities so the enormous thing for us was ferrying them about every evening, particularly in the teen/pre-teen years. We had instruments, various sports going on, plus p/t work once they hit 16, which meant that we had a minimum of of one activity every day, usually 2 or 3, and on Thursdays we had 4. When DC2 got very serious about his main sport he had 10pm pickups 5 days a week, on top of the 4+ activities a week for the other two, which were mostly at more sociable hours. My life changed hugely once DC1 & 2 went to uni (they are still there, although DC1 has now finished and is working in his uni city). We now only have DC3 at home and they are down to 3 activities a week - bliss!

Obviously your kids activity levels are down to you, but the more kids you have, the more time consuming they are and the less time and energy there is to go round.

BrieAndChilli · 02/12/2024 10:58

3 small toddlers/primary aged children - easy and cheap.

Once they hit teenagers it is a different story.

For example, when they were little I could get them xmas pjs from Primark for £8. Now they are in adult sizes its £15-20 for festive pjs. So at least twice the price, scale that up to every single item of clothing and it soon makes a massive difference.

You need to think about things like driving lessons and university. We will have 7 continuous years of a child in Uni wiht 2 of those years having 2 children in at the same time!

Sweetpeasaremadeforbees · 02/12/2024 10:06

I don't understand why you've started another identical thread on this. I was on the other one and I think people were pretty straight with you, yes financially affording another one now is completely doable but don't forget they do get a lot more expensive when teenagers and also the third could have disabilities which would throw everything up in the air.

But from what I remember you basically said that financially helping grown up children was not a priority and it would do them good to have to pay for everything themselves. You seemed very sure that financially everything was sorted so why on earth are you asking the question again, did you not like the answers?

Original poster

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 02/12/2024 09:35

RosesAndHellebores · 02/12/2024 09:26

£47k now, similar to DS.
Up to about £65k for Reader/Associate Prof
Above £75k for Prof
Around £100k for Dean
£120k plus for SMT

I wouldn’t call a 1st degree, Masters, PhD, many degrees. All are relevant for the career trajectory. It isn't just about money. DS is doing a job he loves, following a passion in his research, publishing AND, as far as he is concerned, getting paid for it. He's also got a role at an excellent uni in the North of England where that £47k is worth twice as much as it would be in London.

Young people have to work for nearly 50 years nowadays. It isn't all transactionally about money. Someone very famous once said that wealth and passion go hand in hand and nobody makes a fortune doing what they don't love.

Yeah that’s about right and rings true to when I was in academia, but I will say it’s a lot harder to move up and get that promotion and generally a much harder slog in academia. It’s doesn’t make one better than the other. It’s just my experience and not an attack on your son. I’m really pleased he’s fulfilled and able to make it work!

I’d call a undergrad, ma, mphil and PhD many degrees lol. Definitely 2 or three too many (for me)

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eakjoy · 02/12/2024 09:34

OP have you considered why it is you want ala 3rd? Usually threads like this show which way your heart is going when you start to defend and excuse etc (not a criticism, I think threads like this help to expose your desire!) so you're worried about finances etc and presumably can see the benefits to stopping at 2, but what is it that makes you want 3? I think only then can you weigh up against what you will lose (ie money, lol). Just to check it is somewhat rational, because being broody can be very hormonal and not terribly rational, and also, temporary. I was very broody for a 3rd and probably could have written threads like yours back then, but we weren't as well off back then, now with teens (and more money) I am very relieved as I recognise it was just hormones for me, but that's the benefit of hindsight!

Hankunamatata · 02/12/2024 09:29

For me a third turned out to be more logistics than money. Getting everyone to hobbies they wanted to do. 3 sets of matches on a weekend at different places. 3 sets homework. Navigating having friends sleeping over for all three.

user6476897654 · 02/12/2024 09:27

You obviously can afford a third in terms of housing/feeding/clothing…But, we earn significantly more than you and stopped at 2 and glad we did! Teenagers are so so expensive. It’s never ending. We live rurally so car/driving lessons is essential, holidays, eating out, clothes, hobbies, Uni, house deposits and on and on. Now i know people will be along to say you don’t have to pay for that stuff, their kids did it on their own with a part time job, which may be true but I want to help my children. They do have part time jobs but it’s minimal with studying. I don't think homeownership particularly is achievable without family help these days.

RosesAndHellebores · 02/12/2024 09:26

£47k now, similar to DS.
Up to about £65k for Reader/Associate Prof
Above £75k for Prof
Around £100k for Dean
£120k plus for SMT

I wouldn’t call a 1st degree, Masters, PhD, many degrees. All are relevant for the career trajectory. It isn't just about money. DS is doing a job he loves, following a passion in his research, publishing AND, as far as he is concerned, getting paid for it. He's also got a role at an excellent uni in the North of England where that £47k is worth twice as much as it would be in London.

Young people have to work for nearly 50 years nowadays. It isn't all transactionally about money. Someone very famous once said that wealth and passion go hand in hand and nobody makes a fortune doing what they don't love.

Original poster

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 02/12/2024 09:24

eakjoy · 02/12/2024 09:07

Yes, you can. You have a huge salary, a four-bed house and a seven-seater car.

The 4 bed house wasn't very big when she last discussed it, and she enjoys holidays to Disney, this is why it's a matter of lifestyle, not survival.

Yeah that’s true, it’s a small 4 bed, 2 doubles and 2 single bedrooms, open plan downstairs. Yes we could make it work long term, but we’d probably upsize

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30percent · 02/12/2024 09:23

If you really want another child go for it. None of the reasons you listed should stop you, the house is even big enough for each kid to have their own room so don't worry about it being small.
Jeez when I think of some of the people I know having their third child and their circumstances 😳 trust me if they can do it you definitely can.

Good luck op 🤞🏻

IVFmumoftwo · 02/12/2024 09:20

eakjoy · 02/12/2024 09:07

Yes, you can. You have a huge salary, a four-bed house and a seven-seater car.

The 4 bed house wasn't very big when she last discussed it, and she enjoys holidays to Disney, this is why it's a matter of lifestyle, not survival.

Sounds like she wants her cake and to eat it. If she wants another one she might have to cut back on Disney or maybe not as it seems they are wealthy enough and this is a bit of a stealth brag.

IVFmumoftwo · 02/12/2024 09:19

Why do you need strangers to tell you if should have another or not? Just get on with it or not.

Original poster

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 02/12/2024 09:18

RosesAndHellebores · 02/12/2024 09:12

Why did you need several degrees? That sounds like degree inflation or a non linear trajectory.

The blurring of lines between well educated and overqualified qualified saddens me. DS and SIL are late 20s and their joint earnings aren't dissimilar to yiur household's.

to work in academia you tend to need a phd and in order to have a phd you need a masters. not sure what you mean by degree inflation

well my point of comparison is my very successful friend still in academia, humanities, done really well for herself, lecturer at a top 10 university, salary is £47k.

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kiraric · 02/12/2024 09:17

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 02/12/2024 09:11

We could but I guess why pay more when you don’t have to, my eldest went to a different early years centre until 3, I didn’t even know this place existed until then. There are other places around we could afford, they’d cost more and would be way less convenient but they do exist

I think it’s unlikely for the funding to be pulled because it’s part of a primary school which is part of a larger matrix trust and linked to the best highschool in the area. Makes the school run a heck of a lot easier too.

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I wasn't suggesting you use a more expensive place for the sake of it

Just that you make sure you could if you had to.

All of the things you say were equally true of the one I knew that closed

RosesAndHellebores · 02/12/2024 09:12

Why did you need several degrees? That sounds like degree inflation or a non linear trajectory.

The blurring of lines between well educated and overqualified qualified saddens me. DS and SIL are late 20s and their joint earnings aren't dissimilar to yiur household's.

Original poster

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 02/12/2024 09:11

kiraric · 02/12/2024 07:48

So you couldn't afford childcare in your area except for this one place?

This is what I think is the spanner in the works.

There was a place like this near us a few years ago. Council pulled the funding. A lot of parents with a lot of problems because no where else was as comparably priced.

Local government is under so much pressure at the moment.

I would want to know that I could make it work paying full whack if I had to

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We could but I guess why pay more when you don’t have to, my eldest went to a different early years centre until 3, I didn’t even know this place existed until then. There are other places around we could afford, they’d cost more and would be way less convenient but they do exist

I think it’s unlikely for the funding to be pulled because it’s part of a primary school which is part of a larger matrix trust and linked to the best highschool in the area. Makes the school run a heck of a lot easier too.

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4timesthefun · 02/12/2024 09:08

It ultimately comes down to lifestyle priorities - but I really wouldn’t gloss over the responses that are trying to tell you that the expenses and logistics can increase exponentially, depending on what you want for life/the kids growing up. Some of the unexpected things for us have included

one of mine needed to be moved to a private school due to unexpected issues.
at least 3 of mine will need braces (about 10K each child in Australia). There have also been unexpected bills like psychology etc.
if you have kids that are sporty (or musical, or into any other hobby in a big way), the time and cost can be astronomical. I love that mine are, but I won’t lie - it impacts our work, and our finances. I’m not sure I would have had 4, if I had known how truly expensive it would be as they got older.
Some of the different opportunities they have through school also cost a lot
Having one on one time with 3 is difficult.
Holidays do become way more expensive as they get older, we are essentially buying 5 adult meals and 1 kid meal now every time we eat out. The amount of food they generally eat is off the charts!

To be honest, I probably wouldn’t do it if we only had a spare $900 a month, particularly noting that some of that isn’t actually ‘spare’ as it has to cover essential items like clothing and shoes etc…. Did I mention that my eldest has now gone up 3 sizes in a year, which has meant replacing 4 different types of shoes (2 sports related) 3 times. 12 pairs of shoes for him this year has added up.

Of course you can afford it but I think if you do it, it would be best to go into it knowing it probably will come with some lifestyle sacrifices and strict budgeting when they are older, unless one of you is likely to have a substantial pay rise over the next while. There is nothing wrong with that at all, it’s the situation for most people. I just fear if you assume it will be a cinch, you may be in for a real shock.

eakjoy · 02/12/2024 09:07

Yes, you can. You have a huge salary, a four-bed house and a seven-seater car.

The 4 bed house wasn't very big when she last discussed it, and she enjoys holidays to Disney, this is why it's a matter of lifestyle, not survival.

Original poster

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 02/12/2024 08:58

RosesAndHellebores · 02/12/2024 07:45

Crikey, no learning for the love of learning in your world then. DS's Masters wasn't paid for, his PhD was partially funded. Well worth it for him. He is an academic and turned his thesis into a monograph, rated 4*. My employer funded Prof quals for me and there was an option of working up the dissertation to a Masters. DH paid for it for my 50th 😀

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There’s something to be said for learning for the sake of it but at a time in which some taught masters cost £15k tuition my kids would need to look at their motivations.

i don’t want to out myself BUT I have several degrees partially funded, and the only way to really secure employment in my field was fully funded , now I work somewhere totally unrelated and earn way more than my peers who stayed in academia. Sciences again, that’s the same story but there are substantially more funding opportunities in sciences. My degrees were absolutely worthless (and yes I was at a red brick research institute)

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Christmaseason · 02/12/2024 08:43

Because I’ve heard a lot of, if you have 3 you have to have 4

I never thought that, my 3 DC are adults now. I love having 3 DC, I love us being a gang, it’s a joy to watch how they get on with each other and the special and unique bond my DH and I have with each DC. I have never felt my time is/was spread to thinly or the teenage years a nightmare which are things you read in Mumsnet all the time.

OP I think your finances sound fine.

whosaidtha · 02/12/2024 08:31

I'm not sure how helpful this thread will be as everyone has different lifestyles. I have 3 kids and a joint income of 65k. So almost half yours. We don't struggle. Yes it would be nice to have a bit more but we still have holidays, no debt (apart from mortgage). 110k+would be a dream.

TrippTover · 02/12/2024 08:27

Newnamenewnamenewnamenew · 02/12/2024 07:37

I think finances are the only real tangible point I have, perhaps naively I was thinking, if we’re sound financially everything else work itself out?

i am really interested in the family dynamics though, particularly if ‘middle child’ syndrome is real. Because I’ve heard a lot of, if you have 3 you have to have 4

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Our middle child is, so far, (only 2.5 years in) an absolute legend and it’s really nice to see all the 3 different relationships interlinking. Helps that DC3 is very like both her brothers in different ways (her brothers are very different to each other) and that DC2 is very unforgettable and not a shrinking violet!

And we’re absolutely definitely done! Such a relief! No number 4 here!