Children need community

I agree having a "village" is great as far as kids are concerned. They can see how different homes/families work, improve social skills, learn how to be tolerant and much more outgoing.

I myself (1970s/80s) had grandparents, aunties, family friends, friend's mums all keep an eye on myself and my sister, reciprocated by my parents. Family holidays (with 15 cousins and all the adults) to Pontins or Spain made great memories. Days out to beaches and parks. Fab. It was a right mixed bag of ages, incomes and parental jobs.

My daughter has had the same - even more important IMO as she's an only child - she had to learn how to get along and squabble with cousins and resolve issues. Always had a pack of kids in each other's gardens during the summer and off to the park together when old enough - playing in house in smaller groups in winter. Have been fortunate to have great friends and relatives willing to babysit or host sleepovers.

Definitely makes kids more resilient and tolerant of other people's wants and needs.

We have one 12 year old. We only moved to a country where we had any family when he was eight, by which time our parents couldn’t help out.

Well, it probably also helped that neither of us had your clearly deep-seated anger about your family and ILs being ‘too selfish’ to be as engaged with your children as you would like. Imagine wanting to spend your retirement doing as you please!

And yes, absolutely, we’ve moved to other parts of the country, or to another country, to find somewhere that suited us better. That’s hardly an eccentric notion unless you’re forced to remain in one place.

@UnrelatedTo ok I’ll just move to a different random part of the country then shall I, in the hope of finding people who aren’t as busy? 🙄

let me guess, you’ve got older children and because “you coped” everyone else should?

I think house prices play a huge role. I live in London....so many of my friends have moved away so they could buy a house. I had about 6/7 friends all living within a mile of me who have moved away to varying places.. it's quite sad really. No popping for a quick drink or coffee or bumping into each other in the supermarket anymore

Yeah, that’s really not true. Poverty and needing to move to where there is more work or opportunity has moved a lot more people away from their families than university.

Then you’re looking among the wrong people and/or living in the wrong place for what you need. Very few of our friends lived close to or even in the same country as their parents (DH and I are not from the UK, all our families were overseas). We had to make our own community everywhere we’ve ever lived, along with both working FT and paying for every minute of childcare. But my experience (in three different parts of England, and in other countries) is not generally of people living close to their parents, so it was never an expectation. Now that we live back in the vicinity of our parents, they’re too old/unwell to help out.

I was thinking the other day that the modern university system is responsible for the fracturing of communities, with young people moving away and settling away from their nuclear families.

My religion/culture keeps people close together, and on the whole I feel like children and young people are happier.

Yes I agree. My boys grew up with cousins of a similar age, aunties, and my mum who adored her grandkids. They have many happy memories of their childhood.

@UnrelatedTo I disagree. We have a wide circle of friends with children of similar ages. All of them have family help. They are all busy with work, and seeing their family! When we want to meet someone we have to schedule it weeks in advance (due to their schedules)

we live rurally and this makes a difference - there’s no pop to your neighbours house or kids playing in the street.

everyone is so busy, they are fairly limited in their capacity. When they work full time and have their grandparents filling in childcare, they aren’t going to be able to help in a pinch as they are not around.

Your parents and ILs aren’t the only options for a community, though. If you want one, go out and create one. It doesn’t need to be family.

I wish I had a community.

sadly my parents and in laws are too selfish. They are fit, healthy and wealthy/ retired and want to do as they please, we all bore them.

it breaks my heart and makes me really fucking angry. They had the benefit of their village/ community and dh and I were raised by wider family, but they don’t feel any obligation to spend time with their grandchildren

How young were you when you had your first child, though? Is it not that other people were involved from the outset because you were living with your parents and/or not in an economic position to raise your child wholly yourself or with a partner?

That's depressing for me because I don't have a community.

My children have parents who adore them, a few relatives we see in a fairly formal way and some friends I make an effort to socialise with. They have a great school and lots of extra curricular activities.

But ultimately only my DH and I who truly love them and are there for them. They appear to be thriving.

I think an extended family massively enriches your life ...so many of my childhood memories involve grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins. Of course if you don't have that, you can still have a great childhood and be happy but in an Ideal world of course you're right op

Theoretically, I think it is good to know your neighbours and have a sense of community but personally I am a private person and I don't want the hassle and expectation that comes with that sometimes.

There is a strong sense of community where I live but it has its downsides like when the children were little your time was other people's so constant interaction with other children had to be facilitated at the park after school or continuous playdates. In many ways it is ideal childhood stuff but I sometimes I just wanted to enjoy their childhood without hangers on, do our own thing as a family. We live near a beach and in the summer after school I would plan to go for a picnic and then others would get wind of it and they would join us. Sometimes, that was suffocating.

Equally, my DH is a good Dad and involved and we'd often no need for outside help.

We don't have that sort of community where we are in London, as most families we know are international and have family abroad. I don't think the children are disadvantaged by it - it's an affluent area and families have paid childcare on hand through nannies and easily accessible after school care. Our dcs go to a small prep where our family is known and class sizes are under 15, so pastoral care is strong.

Rather than sitting in a relative's living room watching TV or playing on the street, parents take their dcs out to a range of extracurriculars, sports and cultural activities around town, which are led by experienced teachers and activity leaders, and is definitely more interesting for the parents. DCs spend summer holidays doing different camps, doing specialist activities they love like dance and gymnastics, with a big group of friends.

In an ideal world yes, in reality we're alone so his community are his 3 siblings, 2 dogs, 1 cat.

In principle yes. It’s not all that easy for some of us though. Both my parents are dead (my mum died shortly after my DD was born), none of my siblings live in the same city as me. I am a single parent and my DD’s dad is around but contributes nothing. I am not close to any other family.

I have worked hard to make sure my DD has a good network of supportive people outside the immediate family who are like godparents.

But it is really hard. I am never going to have a “village” in the sense that it’s talked about on here.

Sometimes I feel a bit judged by people on here as if you have an obligation to create this mythical village but for some of us it just isn’t possible.

I agree that a community is a real benefit, when you can find/build a good one! Ours is a mixture of family, school friends, hobby friends, neighbour friends, and old family friends etc. I think it's good for broadening minds and experiences to learn from more than just your parents, and it's part of how we learn time get along with people, e.g. if you're getting a lift home from hockey with Sophie's mum, it's better to say hello and check whether she wants kit in the boot or on the back seat, and acknowledge that yes it's really turned colder today etc. Or playing with mum's friend's child who isn't quite your age and doesn't really like the things you do, but you manage to find some common ground and learn to enjoy each other's company now and then. I think the community is a big part of how we learn and improve a lot of social skills that are very useful later in life.

That's quite apart from any favours that are needed like childcare etc.

Circumstances do differ massively, all my grandparents died before I was born, I had an uncle in Canada who I didn't meet til I was 15 and an auntie who we only saw at Christmas. So my parents were on their own with me and my sister, they had some good friends who we called aunties and uncles and I don't think I missed out by not having any relatives, but it is nice to see my kids with their aunties, cousins and grandparents and it's nice that we have the village to help us

This is coming from the 'childfree' perspective who has lots of godchildren, friends children and nieces & nephews.

Part of being in the village is also contributing to the village - people talk about wanting a village in the sense of free, on-demand childcare where you do things the exact same way a parent does. You're not allowed an opinion, or a voice in how you do things. And when you need a favour back (i.e. a lift home from the hospital), there's always an excuse or a reason not to. I give grace for the first year or two that it's me giving 99% whilst they give 1%, but there comes a point where enough is enough.

Yes, I think this makes a big difference OP.

I've always encouraged my kids to have connections with other adults, their grandparents, aunts, friends of the family. It's always been hugely supportive for them emotionally and intellectually as well. I remember when my middle daughter was in her stroppy teen years, she was always arguing with us about social issues. She went to stay with some family friends - she got on with the daughter very well. When she came back she was much quieter about the stuff she'd complained about before.

What had happened, I found out later, is they had a big group discussion about such topics, and she was shocked to find that her parents weren't the only people who had certain ideas - other people she respected and cared for did as well.

Nobody else knew about the abuse because we presented as a perfect family and I was told to stop making a fuss when I told the non abusive parent. She did love me but she saw me as her perfect little girl who couldn't have let that happen I guess. She thrived on denial. So although I was a very loved and very pampered and spoiled child in many ways, I felt alone a lot. I would either push people away or the to cling onto them, I felt like an orphaned child at times even though I had a good attachment to my mother. I even have a psychiatric label (BPD/EUPD) that is usually used for people who had attachment issues as a child and I know it puzzled those professionals who worked with sorting out my mental health how I could even have this diagnosis. Of course that was a good few years ago now so research has probably changed , it's possible BPD is something you're born with like ASPD can be. I don't know. Sorry, I just realised I've ranted a whole bloody essay!

There is truth in that about one parent I guess. Didn't work for me. I had one abusive parent and one who adored me but the one who adored me was scared of the abusive one, and didn't really see their behaviour as significant abuse so didn't stop it. I really am struggling with the aftereffects though I can see how it would be worse if both parents had been nasty. I just feel a bit bad for struggling when I had one nice parent and that should have been enough.