To resent that my husbands macho-ness is rubbing on to my sons

Well, tbf being taught to fight back is probably less likely to see them being bullied than being a lefty liberal feminist lol.

Though this vote said you were being unreasonable, I don't think many Mumsnetters are aware of the religious aspect. If we were just thinking about your average British couple, same religion for generations if practicing at all then our advice would probably be valid but in your case that's quite different. Your husband comes from a cullture where a father/brother/husband's word is the law under his roof. He is bringing his sons up the way he was raised and if you object, I don't think he will take it nicely. Making a big fuss would probably be disastrous and cause a rift which nobody wants. If you can tell him you'd rather he didn't mould the boys into macho men, he might understand that aspect??

Do you mean that he’s encouraging them to think discipline, schoolwork and clearing up are masculine? - in which case - good on him.

He sounds great with them and like you’ve all fallen on their feet. He’s super involved. While a lot of teenage boys are spending all hours online he’s taking them out 3 x a week to do sports - so much more productive and better for their health.

Personally, I think fight back, toughen up are lessons women should learn too.

You thought highly enough of this man to marry him so I don't really understand why you have this issue.
If you're against this much masculinity then why did you choose this man to marry and how would you like your sins to be?

Honestly OP, I was a single parent to boys who had very little male influence (absent father, grandfathers dead and no uncles). They really struggled with their male identity and it caused a lot of problems (I know this from discussions we've had since - they are ok now but the teenage years were very difficult). Your DH sounds like a positive influence (combined with the influence you will also be having but may be less obvious to you). As long as he's not misogynistic or bullying I'd be leaving him to it - boys are really not the same as girls.

Agree but also bring nice and passive as a woman doesn’t do you any favours either.

Regardless of sex it is important to have resilience and to know to speak up when required.

I can't see the problem. Your'll have to give examples.

Is he the only male influence in their lives? Do they see their uncles very often? In what ways are they different from their cousins?

I think it's tough. The rules for boys and men are different in society and unfortunately being overly nice and passive isn't going to help them in a lot of situations, whereas standing up for themselves etc will.

It's also difficult to know if he is going too far purely off what you've just said.

It's triply difficult because they're more likely to listen to other men unfortunately.

It’s fine if he’s asking them to be resilient.

It is less fine if he’s saying: “boys do X” and implying that girls don’t. Or suggesting that housework is the domain of women. I would very very quickly put an end to that. I wouldn’t for a second worry about undermining him- no son of mine (and I have two) is growing up thinking that housework is not his responsibility. I would absolutely call him out on that.

If he’s inculcating work ethic and discipline, good for him. As long as he’s not suggesting to them regularly that they are superior to women, by virtue of having a penis, discipline per se is not a bad thing.

I would also worry that his approach to masculinity is about appearances- appearing tough (as opposed to being tough and having resilience) which in the long run will be counter productive. The most resilient people I know have the ability to manage their emotions and disappointment in a healthy way.

I don’t mean to undermine him or all but I would really appreciate your thoughts?

What do you mean, you don’t mean to undermine him? He is not your children’s parent. He is your husband. You are their mother. If you feel that he is poisoning them with toxic masculinity then you have a responsibility as a woman and their mother to put a stop to it. This means telling your husband that he is not to say things like ‘toughen up’ or ‘fight back’. And correcting the damage already done to your teens at a time when they are very vulnerable to toxic male influences like Andrew Tate et al. Children should not be told to toughen up and fight back!!

Hard to tell from what you've said. Resilience and discipline sound like very good things to me. Sometimes in life you do just need to toughen up and get on with something, even if you don't fancy it.

If there's disrespect towards women or they're starting to suppress emotions completely that's a different story.

I don't see the harm so long as it doesn't drift into sexism and misogyny

I think most young people these days need to toughen up and be more resilient whether they are male or female

I think he sounds quite nice. But as you say, your views don’t align.
If you want to stay married, make sure you’ve been open with your own view, as he is.
Don't try and fight his opinions, balance it out with your own.
If your kids are able to see that opposing views are respected and discussed, they are more likely to naturally have a more balanced attitude.

Im surprised a North London lefty liberal feminist married someone with such old fashioned views on masculinity

I would’ve had words with him the first time he told them to ‘toughen up’, especially if it is something he wouldn’t have said to girls.

If he ignored me, I wouldn’t have stayed with him.

They're boys who are turning into men...they should be allowed to embrace their masculinity if they want...it doesn't have to be toxic. Your north London liberal type of thinking may not actually suit them entirely....shock horror!

Agree, the ‘liberal’ ones are usually the worst misogynists.

Yes, maybe 😺😺😺

Do the boys respect you less? That would be the issue for me

Tbh men are men - I've found men in liberal circles to be worse than men like your husband

If he's having a positive influence and the boys are good, respect women and treat you and others well, I think you're okay

I sometimes say to my dd, you're a girl, we've are strong etc, positive female attributes

If they're looking up to Andrew tate and saying misogynistic stuff, then you should worry! x

I see being macho as having an attitude of dismissiveness to women , having a fragile ego and so taking offence to anything that makes you look silly and having to look superior and in control all the time.

it doesn’t sound like this.

You need to give examples.
If he is just telling them to toughen up in terms of being resilient, and not moaning about everything that can be a good thing. I am constantly shocked by the snowflakes at work, and I do tell my own kids to get a grip, and go and do their sports training even when it's cold outside, etc.

If the cleaning example is that he is telling them as they are boys they shouldn't clean as women will do it for them, that's very different. But presumably, you would see that play out at home - if they see him contributing to the house, and doing his share then they will do the same. If he treats you like a skivvy, that's different, but then the issue is in your relationship, not what he says to them.

I think if you have conversations with your sons, and also ensure you (as a women) are treated very respectfully at home, they will copy that.
I think you need to give more precise examples.

Is this just a bit irritating to you, OP or is it a 'marry in haste and repent at leisure" scenario?

It might not be the ideal wording, but the idea is right and he is doing a fantastic job!

He is teaching them to be resilient which is a skill that so many youngsters are lacking these days!

I'm sure they'll learn at school what the correct wording should be and will therefore understand that he is just using some outdated language.

Did he ever show signs of disrespecting women in the past. I am sure he thinks he is bringing up his sons properly and in the way his father would like even if it goes against your way of thinking. I don't know whether it's OK to mention religion on here but Islam used to expect men to feel superior to women or at least to believe they know better. Could pleasing his father be relevant?

He sounds great. be careful what you wish for..