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AIBU?

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Original poster

to say no more DC - occasional verbal abuse from DH

182 replies

climbelon · 30/11/2024 13:43

DH and I have 1 DS, age 2. There have been around 10 instances of verbal abuse since DS was born. (Thank you to a poster on a thread a few days ago who linked to a free PDF of Why Does He Do That - I am less than halfway through and already it has been very enlightening.)

There is no physical violence and I do not feel afraid or like I am walking on eggshells.

DH agreed (my idea) would pursue counselling after the last instance. The conversation in which this was agreed felt like a step forward to change. He had various reasons not to pursue free avenues and was too overwhelmed with choice of private practitioners to choose.
I told my friend that he was going to try counselling (not about the abuse). He was upset I shared this and as a result said he will no longer go to counselling. I waited it out as he often says things he doesn't mean when he's angry. Nothing further was mentioned.

A few weeks later I came to the conclusion that we should not have another child while I don't know that this abuse won't continue and/or escalate over time. While I love the idea of DS having a sibling, and I have leaned on my own siblings for support and validation managing the relationship with our abusive DM, it does not feel fair to have another DC, on me or the potential DC, and I guess would make it harder to leave if it comes to this.

The evening of this realisation, DH could see something was wrong. I told him I was upset he wasn't pursuing counselling and that it doesn't feel he is taking how he has spoken to me seriously. He minimised it, saying it's not a big deal, it only happened 3 or 4 times when he was stressed at work. (It has been more like 10 and the first time was while he was on pat leave.)

I also said that I don't think it's a good idea to have another DC. He said he doesn't want one anyway and called me manipulative for saying I wouldn't have another DC unless he gets counselling (which is not what I said). He went to sleep in the spare room as he was 'stressed' and we haven't spoken about it since.

Outside of these incidents, DH is a wonderful husband and father and speaks to me respectfully, if critically at times. However I cannot overlook the 0.1% of the time he is verbally abusive, nor his minimisation or 'are you STILL upset' when I'm not over it.

AIBU to rule out more children?

OP posts:
OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon · 02/12/2024 10:45

You stopped listening to your inner voice because you received a note from him.

He can still move out - was it going to be to his mother's / parents ?
for a period of time

to give you time and peace and quiet to think and consider

I think his letter note is very clever and he knows what he is doing, and I see that you actually nearly fell for it right away...

could he not use his voice and find the words...

remember the mortgage issue is coming up in the new year, I bet he has not forgotten that...

MissSookieStackhouse · 02/12/2024 10:25

I was going to say it looks like you've already got one foot out of the door if you've decided, quite rightly, not to have another DC with him.

I've just seen your update to say have decided to split up. With everything you've said, it certainly sounds like the writing is on the wall for this relationship.

Triffid1 · 02/12/2024 10:17

He brought me a note in the night saying how much he loves us both, wants to be in DS life and breaks his heart the idea of not seeing him daily.

Did this note say anything that suggests he is taking responsibility for his part on this? That he would like to change and what he will do to make that happen? Or is it all "woe is me"? I'm guessing the latter.

OP - the Lundy book is excellent here so I'm glad you're reading that already. We all hate the regular yelling about narcissism but this man has all the hallmarks of a covert narcissist. The classic ability to make it YOUR fault or for you to feel you have to comfort him because he feels so bad about the things he has done. that is not the behaviour of an emotionally mature person.

He has threatened you, multiple times, directly and indirectly and I guarantee this will get worse I' afraid. do NOT stop breast feeding right now.

However, a few things you need to be prepared for next:

1 he will beg, plead, cry, threaten suicide, tell you how awfu he feels. YOu will feel sorry for him.

2 he will ramp up the verval abuse and threats. Be prepared for your phone to be blown up by endless rants about what an awful person you are.

3 Weirdly, he will do these two things almost simultaneously - so you may receive a stream of abusive messages overnight, followed in the morning, but something light and breezy about how he wants the best for you and he loves you so much.

4 He will use your DS to punish you. So if he says he will do x, he won't do it. If he was supposed to drive you somewhere, he won't turn up. If he's supposed to do bedtime, he won't do it. This would be even worse if your DC was older. He may even actively find ways to sabotage you doing any of these things - starting a fight as you're trying to get out to do something important, or causing a scene at bedtime, or taking the car/your keys/the pram so that you can't go out.

Edited to add 5 - He may escalate. Actual violence, or threat of it. Lock you/your DC in a room or break down doors if you are in a room and not allowing him in, throw/break things etc.

Nothatgingerpirate · 02/12/2024 10:14

My husband never shouts or swears at me.
I married to make MY life better, not worse.
YANBU and don't put up with this shit.
You really don't have to.

SophiaCohle · 02/12/2024 10:07

You have given him the opportunity to show he can change though, in the form of counselling, which he bailed out of on the tiniest excuse.

Interesting also that he is talking (if I understood your post correctly) about having already changed, rather than acknowledging that change is still needed, so tacitly admitting that this is as good as it gets.

It's still all about turning it on to you, isn't it. He's not the problem, you're just not giving him the opportunity to show you what a good guy he is really.

You were right to stay in the spare room.

I get that telling a friend would make you feel vulnerable to criticism if you choose to stay with him, but not telling anyone makes you vulnerable to manipulation, which you know is firmly in his skillset. What about the friend you told about the counselling? Since they already know some of the background?

Electricalb · 02/12/2024 10:04

OP, the reality of you being serious has forced him to back track.
That's all this is.

My advice would be to move forward.
Take his offer of the house and tell him that him moving out is a good idea to give you all space to think.

I do not think he will change.
I think space is a good idea.

His go to was to threaten you with losing your child, possibly for ever.
Don't make the huge mistake of forgetting that.

Its a massive red flag that his mind would go to such a threat.
Not normal at all.

The only type of man that does that is the very worst type of abuser.

I'm so sorry for you, but you need to take that very seriously.

Don't become a statistic.
Contact 101 and Women's aid for professional advice.

They are the experts who deal with scum like him all the time.

We are here for you.

Nanny0gg · 02/12/2024 10:02

climbelon · 02/12/2024 08:03

I don't feel that I can at the moment. Sounds silly but in case we do work out. After the note my first reaction was to go up and get back to normal. Had to tell myself to give myself time to make a decision, my feelings first not his.

Thinking about calling a helpline today or finding a drop in as need to talk to someone.

Show quote history

You do.

Please realise that what he is doing is a choice. Change is unlikely

Flowers
Original poster
climbelon · 02/12/2024 08:03

Nanny0gg · 01/12/2024 18:14

ALL of the above

Do you have any friends who you can call for help/support?

Show quote history

I don't feel that I can at the moment. Sounds silly but in case we do work out. After the note my first reaction was to go up and get back to normal. Had to tell myself to give myself time to make a decision, my feelings first not his.

Thinking about calling a helpline today or finding a drop in as need to talk to someone.

OP posts:
Original poster
climbelon · 02/12/2024 07:59

Thank you again, everyone.

He was in the car as we had this conversation driving and DS fell asleep.

He has asked to stay here a few days while he sorts things out. Possibly a test to see if I am serious.

I am sleeping in the spare room (next to DS for feeding). He brought me a note in the night saying how much he loves us both, wants to be in DS life and breaks his heart the idea of not seeing him daily. Said DS and I will keep the house to give him a comfortable upbringing. I have not given him the opportunity to show he has changed. I replied saying I really want a family life and could not have imagined us separating either. However I need verbal abuse acknowledging and not minimising. I need DS brought up in a healthy home and to be treated with respect when disagreeing and calling me out on mistakes.

Don't think either of us slept last night. I feel sick and knotted. Will keep you updated.

OP posts:
GoldenGuinea · 01/12/2024 21:14

usererror99 · 30/11/2024 20:02

Depends on what you consider "verbal abuse" I suppose - there was a recent thread by a poster who said her husband was abusive because he called her a "clown"
It's very subjective.

Which thread was this ? Can you link it, please?

Confusedmeanderings · 01/12/2024 19:14

So sorry to read your latest post.

bluebeck · 01/12/2024 18:14

You absolutely do not have to stop EBF. He is just threatening you and trying to manipulate you into staying in this shitshow of a relationship.

Given his threats to kill himself, I would be reluctant to let him have any unsupervised access to DC.

You need legal advice. You mentioned savings. He doesn’t have access to them does he?

Nanny0gg · 01/12/2024 18:14

Electricalb · 01/12/2024 17:17

OP, this is awful to read.

Your mothers abuse has desensitised you to just how abusive he is.

He is a very dangerous man.

Please call 101 and tell them he has threatened you with never seeing him or your child again.

That is a massive red flag.
Men harm children to punish women.

Please take this very seriously.
His tears and threats to self harm are more abuse.

Call 101 and tell them of his threats.
They are well used to it.
It is what abusive men do to control women.

Do NOT add money to the morgage.
Get legal advice.
Tell the morgage holder you are leaving an abusive relationship.

Stop thinking about him.
Think only of you and your baby.

Pay no attention to him telling you to stop breastfeeding.
Bullying abusive prick.

ALL of the above

Do you have any friends who you can call for help/support?

Nanny0gg · 01/12/2024 18:12

climbelon · 01/12/2024 16:50

Hi. It came up this afternoon. And I have told DH that I want to break up. He said how are you so calm talking about this, you are not taking any responsibility for your manipulation of me, you want to break up because our relationship isn’t perfect because I swore at you a few times. Also that he has changed and I’m being manipulative saying I want to break up if… (you think it’s fine to talk to me like that)
he is sad. He asked to have DS tonight, said he may take him to his parent’s for a few days. I am still breastfeeding, he says I will have to stop. He is currently in the car working out what he is going to do.

I feel sad and am doubting myself. And unsure whether this is actually going to happen and if so how is it going to work. Should I have worked things out before announcing it.

I spoke to women’s aid earlier and have been signposted to solicitors etc.

Do not stop feeding

Do not let him take your DC away

Nanny0gg · 01/12/2024 18:09

climbelon · 01/12/2024 10:50

I feel I need it to get worse to justify leaving. Logically I know it is likely to escalate but I can't really make myself believe it.

@ginasevern Some examples of what had been said:

  • 'you're not looking after DS, you do nothing all day, you only have one thing to remember' when I'd forgotten to give DS his vitamins for a few weeks
  • 'I've had enough of your shit, I'm done, I dont want to be in this relationship anymore' several times and once when I was going out told me that him and DS won't be here when I get home and I'll never see them again
  • last time we were arguing about something he said 'I'm done with your shit, I'm done with work's shit, I'm going to go and kill myself'. He cried afterwards and we had a seemingly very productive chat later which concluded with the counselling decision

He's told me he doesn't need counselling, thinks they're all scammers, and that he had been reading things online to help himself, control his anger. I was happy with this and to wait and see, until he minimised and accused me of manipulating. I have since noticed how critical he is on a daily basis, often with a laugh afterwards as if it's a joke.

@Gymnopedie pre-DS I would go along with his opinions and be easily swayed but have had more boundaries and disagreed with him about more since becoming a mother. I think it may have presented itself earlier had I been stronger.

It is very clear that he's abusive and manipulative.

Start looking at options now

I'm sorry

OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon · 01/12/2024 18:09

Do not let your child out of your sight !!!

you are breast feeding so the child does not under any circumstances go anywhere without you !!!

read and take the advice given above by some very wise posters i.e. @Electricalb

Nanny0gg · 01/12/2024 18:07

climbelon · 30/11/2024 15:27

Thank you for your messages. Time to think about the future. I never considered my marriage would come to this a few years ago, not having a smidge of doubt that I was in a happy, life long relationship.
Appreciate the validation and absolutely right, I am minimising it by allowing things to go back to normal in between.

He is not a wonderful husband and father at all

SophiaCohle · 01/12/2024 18:01

Afraid I have to agree, this is a man who has previously threatened suicide and also said he would leave and take your child and you would never see them again in the course of an argument. Whether genuine or manipulative, either is a safeguarding risk. Sitting in the car "deciding what to do" strikes me as strategic too tbh - presumably you're supposed to go out into the cold and beg him to come back inside, tell him you didn't mean it etc. Do you have anywhere you could go with DS for a few days?

Electricalb · 01/12/2024 17:17

OP, this is awful to read.

Your mothers abuse has desensitised you to just how abusive he is.

He is a very dangerous man.

Please call 101 and tell them he has threatened you with never seeing him or your child again.

That is a massive red flag.
Men harm children to punish women.

Please take this very seriously.
His tears and threats to self harm are more abuse.

Call 101 and tell them of his threats.
They are well used to it.
It is what abusive men do to control women.

Do NOT add money to the morgage.
Get legal advice.
Tell the morgage holder you are leaving an abusive relationship.

Stop thinking about him.
Think only of you and your baby.

Pay no attention to him telling you to stop breastfeeding.
Bullying abusive prick.

Grecianrainbow · 01/12/2024 17:17

Don’t let him take DC - especially when you are still breastfeeding. He sounds like the type to not let you have him back!

someonethatyoulovetoomuch · 01/12/2024 17:11

Well done for speaking up for yourself but please don’t let him take your DS, your son needs to stay with you at the moment.

bombastix · 01/12/2024 16:57

And get a friend around to support you this evening to stay. Can you do that?

bombastix · 01/12/2024 16:56

You keep your child. Don’t move from that house either.

Original poster
climbelon · 01/12/2024 16:50

Hi. It came up this afternoon. And I have told DH that I want to break up. He said how are you so calm talking about this, you are not taking any responsibility for your manipulation of me, you want to break up because our relationship isn’t perfect because I swore at you a few times. Also that he has changed and I’m being manipulative saying I want to break up if… (you think it’s fine to talk to me like that)
he is sad. He asked to have DS tonight, said he may take him to his parent’s for a few days. I am still breastfeeding, he says I will have to stop. He is currently in the car working out what he is going to do.

I feel sad and am doubting myself. And unsure whether this is actually going to happen and if so how is it going to work. Should I have worked things out before announcing it.

I spoke to women’s aid earlier and have been signposted to solicitors etc.

OP posts:
SophiaCohle · 01/12/2024 15:07

climbelon · 01/12/2024 11:26

Thank you. Critical about lots of little things. Doing laundry too much. Putting machine on when he's in the house which is too noisy. Leaving crumbs on the worktop. Wearing stripy clothes. I shouldn't be excited about a hotel spa break because as we are visiting his family there will be no time to use the facilities. Adjusting furniture in DS' room. During an argument, being 'obsessed' with my hobby (go out 3x a week for it when I can before he gets ready for work).

Show quote history

It sounds as though he would like you to be a smaller, more timid version of your self - no noise, no excitement, nothing that makes you happy.

I think you've been really smart and on the ball to put the handbrake on having any more children but like others I also think you should just get out of the relationship. In my experience, getting out earlier is better with men like this.

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