Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to say no more DC - occasional verbal abuse from DH

182 replies

climbelon · 30/11/2024 13:43

DH and I have 1 DS, age 2. There have been around 10 instances of verbal abuse since DS was born. (Thank you to a poster on a thread a few days ago who linked to a free PDF of Why Does He Do That - I am less than halfway through and already it has been very enlightening.)

There is no physical violence and I do not feel afraid or like I am walking on eggshells.

DH agreed (my idea) would pursue counselling after the last instance. The conversation in which this was agreed felt like a step forward to change. He had various reasons not to pursue free avenues and was too overwhelmed with choice of private practitioners to choose.
I told my friend that he was going to try counselling (not about the abuse). He was upset I shared this and as a result said he will no longer go to counselling. I waited it out as he often says things he doesn't mean when he's angry. Nothing further was mentioned.

A few weeks later I came to the conclusion that we should not have another child while I don't know that this abuse won't continue and/or escalate over time. While I love the idea of DS having a sibling, and I have leaned on my own siblings for support and validation managing the relationship with our abusive DM, it does not feel fair to have another DC, on me or the potential DC, and I guess would make it harder to leave if it comes to this.

The evening of this realisation, DH could see something was wrong. I told him I was upset he wasn't pursuing counselling and that it doesn't feel he is taking how he has spoken to me seriously. He minimised it, saying it's not a big deal, it only happened 3 or 4 times when he was stressed at work. (It has been more like 10 and the first time was while he was on pat leave.)

I also said that I don't think it's a good idea to have another DC. He said he doesn't want one anyway and called me manipulative for saying I wouldn't have another DC unless he gets counselling (which is not what I said). He went to sleep in the spare room as he was 'stressed' and we haven't spoken about it since.

Outside of these incidents, DH is a wonderful husband and father and speaks to me respectfully, if critically at times. However I cannot overlook the 0.1% of the time he is verbally abusive, nor his minimisation or 'are you STILL upset' when I'm not over it.

AIBU to rule out more children?

OP posts:
Original poster
climbelon · 03/12/2024 17:56

Yes re being right all the time. He's counselling himself in his head, what's wrong with that.

I'm sorry to say you were all right. This morning I should no longer have been upset, I'm making a big deal out of something that isn't, I can't be upset forever and need to forgive and let him prove he has changed. Oh and I am point scoring like I always do. Followed by links to articles about dad pnd accompanied by 'Not an excuse but....'

I do feel like an equal in the relationship. However like a pp said, it's possible I'm conditioned to certain treatment that I wouldn't recognise it being unhealthy.

I want to slip back to normal good times. Have put in place external accountability now. Thank you all again. I would not have done this without this thread.

OP posts:
Original poster
climbelon · 03/12/2024 17:51

Electricalb · 03/12/2024 08:36

I think it is very important that you log his threats that you would never see your child or him again and his self harm threats.

These are huge markers in the most serious of domestic abuse.

It is what highly controlling abusive men do.
It is coercive control which is a crime.

Please log it with 101 and get their advice.
You and your child are in danger and being talked down puts you at terrible risk.

By logging it with your GP, Women's aid, 101, when you eventually divorce him.......which I have no doubt you will hopefully get the chance to do, you will have proof of his abuse and a paper trail to prevent 50/50.

Abusive men love to threaten 50/50.

Do not pay that money over.
That is your freedom money.
He knows it too.

Hv has logged with sg. Thank you.

OP posts:
bombastix · 03/12/2024 09:11

He is lying to you. The next fight you will have will be him having done nothing and then claiming that you are manipulating him by being upset.

He will also press you for the mortgage money so that you “show your commitment”.

Finally he will start setting things up so that you are less connected to the child; from not getting involved to getting involved so he can manipulate them too

BonfireToffee · 03/12/2024 09:03

climbelon · 03/12/2024 05:09

Re the eggshells- possibly. I intend to notice when I put his opinion first and stop, and see if the behaviour increases. And as you say find someone who I can talk to on an ongoing basis. Tell HV.

Re counselling. I would love for him to go and think it would be beneficial based on what he's said. However I think someone has to want to go, otherwise they will not engage with the process. He says he can do the work himself and has been since the talk after the suicide threat. I am going to go for counselling myself.

Show quote history

OP, I’m so sorry you’re in this position. It sounds very similar to my own, except I’m further down the road than you. Please DM me if you’d like to talk. This situation won’t get better, and I hope you and your wee boy can get out x

Electricalb · 03/12/2024 08:36

I think it is very important that you log his threats that you would never see your child or him again and his self harm threats.

These are huge markers in the most serious of domestic abuse.

It is what highly controlling abusive men do.
It is coercive control which is a crime.

Please log it with 101 and get their advice.
You and your child are in danger and being talked down puts you at terrible risk.

By logging it with your GP, Women's aid, 101, when you eventually divorce him.......which I have no doubt you will hopefully get the chance to do, you will have proof of his abuse and a paper trail to prevent 50/50.

Abusive men love to threaten 50/50.

Do not pay that money over.
That is your freedom money.
He knows it too.

CharlotteCollinsneeLucas · 03/12/2024 07:33

You said earlier that you see the swearing as the tip of the iceberg: I wonder if you meant by that that there are other concerning behaviours, for example manipulation (and lack of concern for how you're feeling?), but after the long talk you were agreeing with him that it's less than 1%, ie you'd gone back to his view that it's just swearing.

I remember these types of arguments from the end of my marriage to a likely narcissist ten or more years ago. It's an utter head melt. What struck me about some of what you said he said is how cold and impersonal it comes across. Like he's not used to someone who doesn't react so gets nastier. Honestly, he sounds like an AI bot with no morals programmed in! Like he's thinking, "hmm this is an interesting response what can I do with this?" rather than "The person I love most in the world is upset, how can I rephrase what I said? Why did I even say that?" like any actual full human.

Does he tend to believe he's right all the time? He comes across that way. You ask for him to leave and give you space but no, he thinks it would be better to talk it out right now today. Well of course he does. Once he agrees to leave the house, it's harder to get into your head! You ask him to go to counselling but no, he thinks he knows everything a counsellor does anyway so he'll just do some breathing exercises when it makes him feel good to do so. And then tell you how hard he's working to improve the marriage.

Do you feel like an equal partner in this relationship?

LadyGaGasPokerFace · 03/12/2024 05:40

I’m glad you suggested counselling to him, but I think you need some too. You mention an abusive dm. I can see why you’re still with your h as your boundaries are all skewed as you’re used to being treated in that way.
I agree with the other posters about him not being a good father or husband, he’s not good enough.

Dontsparethehorses · 03/12/2024 05:12

Well done for taking the initiative to get counselling- hopefully that will help you and will definitely give you the opportunity to have someone to talk to and process with. Be very aware of his reaction to you seeking this support as it might well not be positive… take care and look after yourself!

Original poster
climbelon · 03/12/2024 05:09

Dontsparethehorses · 03/12/2024 05:02

Good luck OP, it sounds like he has recognised the pattern of previous abuse and how that impacts him in your relationship- if he’s serious about changing that he would seek counselling. I don’t think he will but I think it is more than reasonable for you to explain that if you are to have a healthy relationship together moving forward, and act as good role models for dc that he does this.
keep writing down what he does, I doubt it’s only 1% of the time, more likely your walking on egg shells for a lot more of the time in order to limit the amount of time you have to challenge him. Find someone who can listen and support you.

Re the eggshells- possibly. I intend to notice when I put his opinion first and stop, and see if the behaviour increases. And as you say find someone who I can talk to on an ongoing basis. Tell HV.

Re counselling. I would love for him to go and think it would be beneficial based on what he's said. However I think someone has to want to go, otherwise they will not engage with the process. He says he can do the work himself and has been since the talk after the suicide threat. I am going to go for counselling myself.

OP posts:
Original poster
climbelon · 03/12/2024 05:04

Wegovypictures · 02/12/2024 21:41

I feel satisfied that things are and will change, and feel he has acknowledged the severity of the way he speaks to me.

Can I ask what has made you feel like that? Your recap to us shows him arguing with you and defending it, with no contrition or pledge to change. Did he do those things and book counselling?

Looking up the definition of contrition, no new show of guilt/remorse, no. He says he knows what he has said is wrong and he shouldn't be saying it.

OP posts:
Dontsparethehorses · 03/12/2024 05:02

Good luck OP, it sounds like he has recognised the pattern of previous abuse and how that impacts him in your relationship- if he’s serious about changing that he would seek counselling. I don’t think he will but I think it is more than reasonable for you to explain that if you are to have a healthy relationship together moving forward, and act as good role models for dc that he does this.
keep writing down what he does, I doubt it’s only 1% of the time, more likely your walking on egg shells for a lot more of the time in order to limit the amount of time you have to challenge him. Find someone who can listen and support you.

Original poster
climbelon · 03/12/2024 04:58

@Wegovypictures
There was a pledge to change, but with the caveat that it might happen again a year down the line. I suppose comparing it to a relapse with addiction, which is part of behavioural change.

What made me feel like this.. there was an acknowledgement that he does say things he shouldn't and that are unacceptable. I keep in mind that he also said he doesn't see it as abuse. And that I have told him what I need from him making it easy for him to say what I need to hear.

OP posts:
Original poster
climbelon · 03/12/2024 04:52

Yes, I have been talked down.

To someone who asked if he has access to my savings, no. We have a joint account we each pay into for shared expenses and all savings are separate.

My reflections overnight. This doesn't just happen when I am not reacting. It has happened when I have disagreed about something and not 'listened to him' I.e. submitted to his opinion. It continues to happen when he gets a reaction from me. I cry, he calls me manipulative for crying. He told me last night in previous relationships they would both get nasty at each other and he's not used to someone who doesn't react so gets nastier.

My intentions going forward. I will talk about it with friends and professionals. Regardless of whether or not I have imminent plans to leave. This is about my needs, not his privacy. If he wants it kept private he shouldn't do it. I will restart my writing. And keep a record of events from now on. Reflect and record what I can remember of past events. Notice when he makes things about him/the family and make a decision for what I need. Continue to read and re read this thread.

OP posts:
Electricalb · 02/12/2024 21:58

You have been talked down by a highly dangerous abusive man who threatened you with never seeing your child again.

I really hope you will think more of your own and your childs safety.

This is not a good man.

AlertCat · 02/12/2024 21:46

Wegovypictures · 02/12/2024 21:41

I feel satisfied that things are and will change, and feel he has acknowledged the severity of the way he speaks to me.

Can I ask what has made you feel like that? Your recap to us shows him arguing with you and defending it, with no contrition or pledge to change. Did he do those things and book counselling?

OP is up against a master manipulator ☹️

Wegovypictures · 02/12/2024 21:41

I feel satisfied that things are and will change, and feel he has acknowledged the severity of the way he speaks to me.

Can I ask what has made you feel like that? Your recap to us shows him arguing with you and defending it, with no contrition or pledge to change. Did he do those things and book counselling?

OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon · 02/12/2024 21:41

You are being so manipulated. and you don't see / realise it.

AlertCat · 02/12/2024 21:39

It’s classic gaslighting and narcissistic abuse, I recognise so much- this from you stood out: I feel I need it to get worse to justify leaving.

3 years I stayed, and I continued to believe him and minimise his behaviour because he wasn’t hitting me, basically. 12 years on and I am financially a lot poorer than I would have been had I left sooner and not continued to appease him even after I left (I was afraid he would stop me having dc). Please don’t repeat my mistakes.
www.rightsofwomen.org.uk could help you too.

Be careful, keep your baby by you. Don’t trust your husband. He isn’t your friend.

Home - Rights of Women

Rights of Women is a charity that provides free confidential legal advice and information to women on the law in England and Wales with a specific focus on Violence Against Women and Girls. We also campaign for access to justice and safety for all wome...

http://www.rightsofwomen.org.uk

Original poster
climbelon · 02/12/2024 21:26

SophiaCohle · 02/12/2024 13:09

I might also add, if I'm so manipulative and awful why would you want to stay with me?

I do say this! And you are so right in your previous post about letting go of the idea of reasoning with him. In that state bringing logic just means a different accusation/subject changed etc.

We have had a long chat tonight and (as has happened previously) in the course of a few hours I have gone from 'everything I thought I knew about him was wrong', seeing our relationship in a new light, to hope that things will be OK and improve.

Feel ashamed posting this but hey, an anonymous forum, and want to override my people pleasing tendency to do my own thing on the sly and disappear. And would welcome further comments, I can only be challenged if I'm honest.

He has said the number of times it has happened is irrelevant(hm). That if it is less than 1% of the time, which we agree it is, that surely the rest of the time is what counts. I make my comparison as always that if he was hitting me less than 1% of the time would this be OK. Of course not. He says how he treats me the 1% is wrong but he doesn't see it as abuse, as his ex did much worse, screaming, manipulating, checking his phone, turned him into a shell of himself. I do believe him about this.
He has reflected that when he speaks to me the way I am objecting to he is trying to get a reaction out of me. I don't react when he is angry and his dad did the same so he would have to hurt him to be acknowledged. He said he is still in this childhood pattern and is working to change it, using breathing and a timeout, and return to the issue when he is calm.

He brought my issues into it (as he did during our big chat after the last episode) that I need to argue better, I focus on being right and one upping. I said I am not responsible for your abuse and this should be a separate conversation. He disagreed as he feels everything is being put on him when I have things to work on too.

I feel satisfied that things are and will change, and feel he has acknowledged the severity of the way he speaks to me. He does expect to slip up occasionally and doesn't feel this should he used against him. I said I expect to be 'allowed' to be upset and not to be expected to get over it once he has.

Going to sleep in the spare room to really give myself time to reflect. And speak to my friend about it tomorrow I think. Didn't open up to anyone today but did leave a VM with local dv charity. I am just asking myself how can I be prepared to leave the relationship in the morning and happy to stay come evening. I will take some more space and not dive back in after a good chat, as is what usually happens.

Thank you if you read this but just good to write it down for my own sake!

OP posts:
Electricalb · 02/12/2024 14:53

I agree.

This is him having remembered the morgage payment you would be making.

Do not commit another penny to this marriage.

SophiaCohle · 02/12/2024 13:09

I might also add, if I'm so manipulative and awful why would you want to stay with me?

SophiaCohle · 02/12/2024 13:07

climbelon · 02/12/2024 12:40

I can't thank you all enough. You are giving me so much strength to stand my ground.

@Triffid1 Said it was wrong of him to swear at me and it won't happen again. The swearing is the tip of the iceberg in my view.
Thank you for the list. I will keep an eye for this. Hopefully over text so I have evidence if needed.

To everyone who said continue BF. I am picturing him saying I am using this to manipulate the situation and keep DS with me. Any suggested responses?

Personally, I think you need to let go of the idea that you can reason with him and eventually he will capitulate to your point of view.

He will accuse you of manipulation because that's a thing that he does to divert your attention away from the fact that actually he is the manipulator.

You can be right about BFing, you can make the most compelling argument ever for BFing, but he will still be angry and resentful. And if it wasn't BFing it would be something else he would accuse you of. It's just a convenient stick to beat you with.

I would just say no. I'm not stopping BFing and please stop asking me to.

Triffid1 · 02/12/2024 13:00

climbelon · 02/12/2024 12:40

I can't thank you all enough. You are giving me so much strength to stand my ground.

@Triffid1 Said it was wrong of him to swear at me and it won't happen again. The swearing is the tip of the iceberg in my view.
Thank you for the list. I will keep an eye for this. Hopefully over text so I have evidence if needed.

To everyone who said continue BF. I am picturing him saying I am using this to manipulate the situation and keep DS with me. Any suggested responses?

Yup, he gets to be the "good guy" (in his head) by acknowledging some (minor) transgression. Now you will he the bad guy for not accepting this and/or for wanting more from him.

Original poster
climbelon · 02/12/2024 12:40

I can't thank you all enough. You are giving me so much strength to stand my ground.

@Triffid1 Said it was wrong of him to swear at me and it won't happen again. The swearing is the tip of the iceberg in my view.
Thank you for the list. I will keep an eye for this. Hopefully over text so I have evidence if needed.

To everyone who said continue BF. I am picturing him saying I am using this to manipulate the situation and keep DS with me. Any suggested responses?

OP posts:
lifeisforlaying · 02/12/2024 10:51

I wouldn't be thinking no more children, I'd be thinking how can I get my child away from this abusive man. This won't be what you want to hear, but verbal abuse is damaging and you need to protect your child from him.

Swipe left for the next trending thread