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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Intimacy or controlling behaviour?

119 replies

blueskyair · 29/11/2024 13:26

DH thinks physical intimacy equates to love. I see it as an element of a loving relationship, he thinks he’s entitled to it when he wants it, wants me to walk around naked when we’re upstairs because he says it’s what loving couples do, and expects to have access to my body throughout the night eg to ‘hold me’ by his hands on boobs/privates and doesn’t like me moving his hands and showing I have a choice in this, or just so I can sleep. He says he’s not being controlled by me telling him where he can put his hands. Am I wrong now seeing I have a choice in this? I had zero awareness of this when we met 30 years ago, and I have been doing some work to try and understand the dynamics of our relationship which often feels unhealthy. He is very charming outside the home, very sociable and helpful. At home he can be very helpful on a practical level but blows hot and cold and gets angry when things don’t go his way, but if I point this out I become the problem for nagging or being on his back about stuff I’m not ok with. I’ve spent most of the 30 years feeling scared of him and becoming isolated from friends and family, but not recognising this. He generally storms off in a mood and goes out and makes subtle threats if I challenge him. He keeps getting angry (because I’m now seeing his behaviour as not ok and this means I’ve changed eg I’m challenging him) and this reality is killing the relationship especially the physical side, which is creating a cycle because he’s getting more angry about not getting his own way and I’m asking him to understand why him being angry when things don’t go his way and feeling entitled to my body is the problem for me.

OP posts:
PeggyMitchellsCameo · 30/11/2024 05:59

Waking someone up like this is a classic sign of abuse. So sorry @blueskyair you must be exhausted x

Cariadm · 30/11/2024 05:14

I hate to add to the (kindly meant) criticism and valuable advice you have already received but your husband has been gaslighting you BIG time for what sounds like the whole of your marriage and he more than deserves for you to stand up to him once and for all and to just leave as soon as possible.
I agree with another poster who suggested that you not hang around challenging the right to your 'boundaries' as this will only fan the flames, he will become more aggressive as he realises that his 'kingdom' is about to come crashing down and you could indeed put yourself in serious danger, as I think you probably already more than suspect?
I am so sorry that you have been unable to free yourself before and I empathise with you on several levels as I also was brought up in a household with DV, my father was a narcissistic, misogynistic compulsive gambler with a Jekyll and Hyde personality, out of house everyone thought he was a charming and great bloke, in the house he was a monster...I am now 76 and and it still haunts me.
I wish you the best and please don't think about it, just do it, whatever it takes he does not deserve one more minute of your precious life. xx

blueskyair · 30/11/2024 04:14

PeriPeriMam · 30/11/2024 03:58

I'm going to strongly disagree with this advice in the context of obvious domestic abuse here. OP, this man will keep pushing your boundaries whatever you do to set them, his behaviour is highly abusive and you are quite likely to find yourself in danger if/when you truly assert your boundaries here. You are not the problem. Get that Women's Aid adviser and get a safe plan to get out. I'm sorry, but if he believes he has a right over your body and has done for years he may well not take kindly when the penny drops.

Thank you. I agree and fear of his response to me ending the relationship currently adds to my inaction. He is a very overpowering person.

OP posts:
PeriPeriMam · 30/11/2024 03:58

CoffeeCup14 · 29/11/2024 15:45

Having boundaries is the first step - recognising what your boundaries are and experiencing the feelings when someone violates them.

Holding boundaries is much harder. You've built up patterns over the past three decades where his desires are prioritised over your boundaries, and there will be lots of reasons given why that is reasonable, to the point that you are really uncertain whether you are being reasonable, or possibly even what you want.

To assert your boundary, you need to express it clearly, and there needs to be a consequence if your boundary is ignored. Actually holding boundaries and expecting them to be respected is the first one.

This is so, so hard, because you are scared of the consequences. It is entirely reasonable to find this frightening.

Have a look at how your husband responds to other people's boundaries - people he respects. I bet he respects their boundaries - I bet he anticipates some people's boundaries and doesn't go near them. So he can do it, he's just choosing not to.

You can learn to hold boundaries. I've been through this in relationships with various people. Once you start doing it, it feels liberating and you realise that what you want is important. You need people to support you - women's aid, family members, friends - when you are wavering they can remind you why it matters. An outside eye to recognise patterns of behaviour, and encourage you to persist (because it's so tempting to just give in 'on this occasion') makes a massive difference.

I really hope you manage to do this. He has no right to touch you when you don't want to be touched or denand that you walk around naked.

I'm going to strongly disagree with this advice in the context of obvious domestic abuse here. OP, this man will keep pushing your boundaries whatever you do to set them, his behaviour is highly abusive and you are quite likely to find yourself in danger if/when you truly assert your boundaries here. You are not the problem. Get that Women's Aid adviser and get a safe plan to get out. I'm sorry, but if he believes he has a right over your body and has done for years he may well not take kindly when the penny drops.

StormingNorman · 30/11/2024 01:37

You’re not wrong - it is always your choice when and how somebody touches you.

It’s time to share what you’ve learnt about consent with your husband. He sounds co trolling in other ways too, so you may prefer to spend your energy getting your ducks in a row.

He sounds awful @blueskyair

Tittibits · 30/11/2024 01:30

Please tell me you realise you do not have to stay with this man. He is as bad as anyone I have read about on MN and I suspect you have just scratched the surface of his abusive and controlling behaviour.

You owe him nothing, but you do owe yourself the chance to be happy and see your children and grandchildren without his spectre in the background.

BeensOnToost · 29/11/2024 23:17

blueskyair · 29/11/2024 14:48

His temper is awful and a few months ago he got so aggressive and was physically raging at me and (although has never physically hurt/hit me) and afterwards when things were calmer I said I would need to call the police if it happened again, he just laughed and said ‘they didn’t help you last time’ in reference to my previous relationship experiences of DV when police didn’t act because of ‘lack of physical injuries’. I feel like he’s got a very complex personality, like he’s seemingly friendly and helpful but only if you’re 100% compliant.

Because he's a controlling arsehole who makes you earn his nice behaviour and punishes you when you misbehave. Just enough carrot and stick to make sure you doubt yourself and stay which makes his life easier. He has invested 30 years into creating his own perfect life one where you are utterly convinced that he has the right to whatever he wants, he won't let go of it easily. Be careful how you leave because it will.be dangerous.

blueskyair · 29/11/2024 22:58

napody · 29/11/2024 21:18

Him telling you that you exercising your right to bodily autonomy is 'controlling' is one of the most chilling things I've ever heard.
Yes, you do get to have control over that. Absolute, unquestioned control. He does not own you or your body.

Gisele Pelicot comes to mind. I'm sorry OP, he sounds incredibly manipulative.

Thank you. It’s been so helpful to see such strong, hard hitting responses to something I have found incredibly confusing and extremely difficult to share with anyone. Ironically the Giselle Pelicot case you referred to has resonated with me. I grew up in a DV household with an alcoholic M and SF, and I know this has affected my sense of agency my whole life. I had hoped for some level of support from MN but also still feared not being understood (also from my previous experience) especially without providing the full detailed picture, so I chose the issue which is currently creating the most tension/arguments just to give a snapshot. Most of these arguments are in the early hours of the morning when I’ve held my boundary in bed and he angrily demands we sit up and discuss ‘my behaviour’. I will keep returning to all your replies when I need clarity xx

OP posts:
GreatTheCat · 29/11/2024 22:34

This is one of the worst threads I have ever read.
He is a real pig of a man. Totally disgusting and a abusive one at that.

Please leave him.

napody · 29/11/2024 21:18

Him telling you that you exercising your right to bodily autonomy is 'controlling' is one of the most chilling things I've ever heard.
Yes, you do get to have control over that. Absolute, unquestioned control. He does not own you or your body.

Gisele Pelicot comes to mind. I'm sorry OP, he sounds incredibly manipulative.

TwinklyAmberOrca · 29/11/2024 21:04

blueskyair · 29/11/2024 20:35

Thank you all for all the replies, it really has shocked me to read how strongly people feel over something that has felt so overwhelmingly confusing, and when I’ve tried to discuss it I’ve always been the problem. A big part of the confusion is his ability to be so nice in between issues. I have adult children and grandchildren (from previous marriage) and he has caused chaos in those relationships, which I couldn’t see at the time. I’ve worked really hard on being in those relationships recently and holding boundaries regarding them, and he’s getting agitated about this and complains about the time I spend with them, which flips the narrative again and makes me feel like the problem. I’m trying to overcome the control I’ve been under so he will notice I’ve changed towards him. Our assets/bank etc are all joint. I’m planning on going back to work soon (I’ve worked most of my life until recently).

The flipping things round to make it out to be your fault and other traits (trying to isolate you) are that of a narcissist.

You seem to be in an abusive/controlling relationship.

blueskyair · 29/11/2024 20:35

Forrressstloverr · 29/11/2024 19:42

Dear God @blueskyair your H is an absolute fucking monster. You need to leave the bastard and that’s not something I’ve said before. 💐

Thank you all for all the replies, it really has shocked me to read how strongly people feel over something that has felt so overwhelmingly confusing, and when I’ve tried to discuss it I’ve always been the problem. A big part of the confusion is his ability to be so nice in between issues. I have adult children and grandchildren (from previous marriage) and he has caused chaos in those relationships, which I couldn’t see at the time. I’ve worked really hard on being in those relationships recently and holding boundaries regarding them, and he’s getting agitated about this and complains about the time I spend with them, which flips the narrative again and makes me feel like the problem. I’m trying to overcome the control I’ve been under so he will notice I’ve changed towards him. Our assets/bank etc are all joint. I’m planning on going back to work soon (I’ve worked most of my life until recently).

OP posts:
Overbythewaterfountain · 29/11/2024 20:12

The only boundary you can have with regard to an abuser is to have no contact with them. As you've experienced, they won't respect any boundary that you try to lay down in a relationship, so all you can do is remove yourself from their orbit.

Forrressstloverr · 29/11/2024 19:42

Dear God @blueskyair your H is an absolute fucking monster. You need to leave the bastard and that’s not something I’ve said before. 💐

jannier · 29/11/2024 19:37

blueskyair · 29/11/2024 14:48

His temper is awful and a few months ago he got so aggressive and was physically raging at me and (although has never physically hurt/hit me) and afterwards when things were calmer I said I would need to call the police if it happened again, he just laughed and said ‘they didn’t help you last time’ in reference to my previous relationship experiences of DV when police didn’t act because of ‘lack of physical injuries’. I feel like he’s got a very complex personality, like he’s seemingly friendly and helpful but only if you’re 100% compliant.

You've been with him 30 years so your previous experiences were presumably more than 30 years ago....the law has changed the support you get has changed you don't have to be physically abused get advice.

jannier · 29/11/2024 19:35

He's abusive he will never agree with you time to escape and be happy.

Tangerinenets · 29/11/2024 19:14

What?!! It’s your body and he has absolutely no “right” to touch it when he pleases. FFS - what a knob 😡

it’s what loving couples do?? Sorry that made me laugh, typical male trying to manipulate a situation to get his own way and make you feel you’re the unreasonable one 🙄

Sassybooklover · 29/11/2024 19:10

Your husband is a disgusting piece of shit. He may be your husband but he has zero rights over your body. He's happy only when he has a compliant wife, who goes along with everything he wants/says without question. You are beginning to recognise that his behaviour is wrong, and questioning him. Of course he's going to blame you, he wants you feeling frightened, guilty and bad, so you'll go back being compliant again. The police these days are much more vigilant regarding DV, and they would take action, if you were to phone them. Again he's using your past experience, to frighten and control you. He's abusive, and has eroded your self-esteem away, to the point you are second guessing your own mind. Please seek some help, to get away from this awful man. You deserve far better than him.

PeggyMitchellsCameo · 29/11/2024 18:51

Go back to Women’s Aid.
This man knows how to ‘behave’ outside of the home. Does he start groping you in front of people he wants to impress?
No.
What he is doing is abusive. It is sexual assault. Physical intimacy is about having total trust that another person will care for you.
What he is doing is sexual abuse and it is illegal.
You have lived for 30 years scared of a man, who has pretty much dismantled your life.
So, so many women feel they can’t leave due to a lack of independence. You are living in a prison with an abuser. It is possible to get out.
You deserve better. Writing on here is a good first step. Go back to WA as the second.
You don’t want to waste the rest of your life with this man.

TwinklyAmberOrca · 29/11/2024 18:44

blueskyair · 29/11/2024 14:48

His temper is awful and a few months ago he got so aggressive and was physically raging at me and (although has never physically hurt/hit me) and afterwards when things were calmer I said I would need to call the police if it happened again, he just laughed and said ‘they didn’t help you last time’ in reference to my previous relationship experiences of DV when police didn’t act because of ‘lack of physical injuries’. I feel like he’s got a very complex personality, like he’s seemingly friendly and helpful but only if you’re 100% compliant.

Sorry you're having to tolerate this.

This post spoke volumes. The fact you've been in a DV relationship before - it's actually very common for DV victims to end up in a controlling relationship again.

His behaviour is NOT acceptable, not right, and not normal.

Are there any children involved in this relationship? Do you work? Do you have your own separate bank account?

Your body is your own and just because he's your husband doesn't mean your body becomes his property. If you say no to him touching you, it means no. If you want to wear PJs and get a good night sleep then you are entitled to do that.

I would find his behaviour repulsive and such a turn off.

Stay safe and speak to Women's Aid for advice.

Daftapath · 29/11/2024 18:37

As others have said, please speak to Women's Aid. Be very careful about asserting boundaries though. As your H is aggressive and this will worsen if he feels that you are getting stronger and possibly leaving.

No matter what you do, I don't believe that H will ever change into a reasonable human and I would very much hope that you could become strong enough to leave.

Do you work or have children? Own your own house? If you were to divorce, you should be entitled to a share of any assets, regardless of whether you currently have access to them.

unsync · 29/11/2024 18:19

You are not your husband's plaything to do with as he pleases. You do have autonomy over your body.

Please follow up on the Women's Aid support worker. They will be able to help you with next steps.

Coercive control and sexual assault are crimes. You can report them to the Police and they will believe you despite what your awful husband might say. Please look after yourself and stay safe.

Cherrysoup · 29/11/2024 18:08

Who the fuck is the 1% voting ur? Clearly an idiot, hopefully a miss hit!

Please seek support to get away from him. Who does he think he is telling you he should not be controlled by not being allowed to feel you up all night yet you can’t tell him no?! Absolute wanker.

Owly11 · 29/11/2024 17:59

Fucking hell op this is probably one of the more depressing and shocking things I have read on Mumsnet. He thinks it's up to him where and when he puts his hands on you? So is it equally up to you where and when you put your hands on him? No of course it isn't and you must know this. He needs your permission to touch your body and no means no. I am wondering where you learnt in your past that your body is not your own and that you are not allowed to have boundaries.

Makingchocolatecake · 29/11/2024 17:35

Your body, your choice if anyone touches it