Page 2 | Intimacy or controlling behaviour?

blueskyair · 2024-11-29T13:26:16+00:00

DH thinks physical intimacy equates to love. I see it as an element of a loving relationship, he thinks he’s entitled to it when he wants it, wants me to walk around naked when we’re upstairs because he says it’s what loving couples do, and expects to have access to my body throughout the night eg to ‘hold me’ by his hands on boobs/privates and doesn’t like me moving his hands and showing I have a choice in this, or just so I can sleep. He says he’s not being controlled by me telling him where he can put his hands. Am I wrong now seeing I have a choice in this? I had zero awareness of this when we met 30 years ago, and I have been doing some work to try and understand the dynamics of our relationship which often feels unhealthy. He is very charming outside the home, very sociable and helpful. At home he can be very helpful on a practical level but blows hot and cold and gets angry when things don’t go his way, but if I point this out I become the problem for nagging or being on his back about stuff I’m not ok with. I’ve spent most of the 30 years feeling scared of him and becoming isolated from friends and family, but not recognising this. He generally storms off in a mood and goes out and makes subtle threats if I challenge him. He keeps getting angry (because I’m now seeing his behaviour as not ok and this means I’ve changed eg I’m challenging him) and this reality is killing the relationship especially the physical side, which is creating a cycle because he’s getting more angry about not getting his own way and I’m asking him to understand why him being angry when things don’t go his way and feeling entitled to my body is the problem for me.

Confusedmeanderings · 01/12/2024 15:40

OP I can't add to the excellent advice you have received on this thread, but would like to tell you that I am thinking of you and really hope that you can break free.

Cariadm · 01/12/2024 15:19

blueskyair · 01/12/2024 11:57

Thank you for all the replies. I really need these as reminders to guide me going forwards. It’s been more helpful sharing on here than I could have imagined. I’m grateful for this community xx

You're very welcome and good luck for the future...be brave! xx

ByBusyTiger · 01/12/2024 13:25

blueskyair · 29/11/2024 20:35

Thank you all for all the replies, it really has shocked me to read how strongly people feel over something that has felt so overwhelmingly confusing, and when I’ve tried to discuss it I’ve always been the problem. A big part of the confusion is his ability to be so nice in between issues. I have adult children and grandchildren (from previous marriage) and he has caused chaos in those relationships, which I couldn’t see at the time. I’ve worked really hard on being in those relationships recently and holding boundaries regarding them, and he’s getting agitated about this and complains about the time I spend with them, which flips the narrative again and makes me feel like the problem. I’m trying to overcome the control I’ve been under so he will notice I’ve changed towards him. Our assets/bank etc are all joint. I’m planning on going back to work soon (I’ve worked most of my life until recently).

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Intermittent reinforcement of the trauma bond he has created for you. He is nice to you to confuse you and keep you thinking he just has faults. The nasty side is the real person.

They’re incredible when they’re not being monsters, aren’t they? 😆

ByBusyTiger · 01/12/2024 13:18

The abuse and control will ramp up as you start seeing him with clarity. I cannot stress this enough.

Play nice, pretend all is well and get out quietly. Fighting with a narcissist is pointless, asking a narcissist to know how to love is pointless. If you have the resources, find a way out.

ByBusyTiger · 01/12/2024 13:03

blueskyair · 30/11/2024 11:55

Thank you, I will look at this too. I changed my phone PIN a couple of years ago because he had started taking my phone and even ‘helping me look for it’ when I noticed it missing. I still live in fear that he will work out the new PIN. I use the finger print too. Reading all your replies has made me realise how bad this is. I can’t reason with him and eventually will need to leave without telling him xx

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What if I told you some of these npd men will literally hide your things so they can be the hero and find it for you or they’ll just enjoy watching you look for it? It throws you off if someone keeps moving your things.

The man will already have your pin, believe me. Change it frequently. You have to know how your enemy works in this case, read and keep reading.

They’re warped beyond belief. They will do the weirdest things to feel in control. You’re only just discovering their mind games, it’s going to get enlightening from here.

ByBusyTiger · 01/12/2024 12:53

blueskyair · 29/11/2024 14:48

His temper is awful and a few months ago he got so aggressive and was physically raging at me and (although has never physically hurt/hit me) and afterwards when things were calmer I said I would need to call the police if it happened again, he just laughed and said ‘they didn’t help you last time’ in reference to my previous relationship experiences of DV when police didn’t act because of ‘lack of physical injuries’. I feel like he’s got a very complex personality, like he’s seemingly friendly and helpful but only if you’re 100% compliant.

Typical abuser. I’m with one, they don’t change.

You’ll get a completely different man if you comply with what he wants but as soon as you exert independence (as you’re starting to do) watch him change.

Because you want your control back, he’ll get nastier. Look up NPD, look up the dark triad (these men are almost always on it) so you know what you’re dealing with.

That’s a long time to be brainwashed into a trauma bond, you need to know why you got here.

Original poster

blueskyair · 01/12/2024 11:57

Thank you for all the replies. I really need these as reminders to guide me going forwards. It’s been more helpful sharing on here than I could have imagined. I’m grateful for this community xx

OP posts:

BilboBlaggin · 30/11/2024 12:13

If you first met 30 years ago then you're obviously not youngsters. Please don't live the remainder of your life with this horrible, abusive man.

You say it's hard to talk about, and he has caused issues in your relationships, distancing you from loved ones. I would encourage you to be brave and reach out to those loved ones. Explain in confidence that you've finally found the strength to do something about your life and are planning to leave this man. They'll probably be more supportive than you could ever imagine.

I wish you well in the next step of your journey OP and hope you succeed in leaving. A much better life awaits you.

CharlotteCollinsneeLucas · 30/11/2024 12:12

blueskyair · 30/11/2024 11:48

The house and bank account are in joint names. I paid a large deposit for the house originally after he couldn’t provide his share at the last minute saying because of problems with his ex. This has only just occurred to me recently how off this was. He has a good pension, I don’t, although until recently I have always worked, mostly full time, and am going back to work soon. We both have the full state pension due when we retire. He’s always ploughed everything into his private pension saying it’s for us. He’s 12 years older.

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You are entitled to half his pension as well as your half of the house and bank account. Get a good solicitor who will fight for you, when you're ready.

As for him and his networking, those who believe him you can walk away from. Those who are there for you are the people you choose to keep in your life. Honestly, if you leave him, you'll have so much agency: who you choose to spend time with, when you go to sleep, what you wear - you won't know what to do with yourself, but it'll be a good feeling.

Original poster

blueskyair · 30/11/2024 11:55

Fenellapitstop · 30/11/2024 11:20

So much has changed in how domestic abuse is dealt with by the police in the past 20 years. I know the idea of talking to anyone or leaving is scary. But start getting things in order while not saying anything. There is help out there now.

The other thing to look at having on your phone is hollieguard. It is possible to hide the apps if he's the type to go through your phone

Thank you, I will look at this too. I changed my phone PIN a couple of years ago because he had started taking my phone and even ‘helping me look for it’ when I noticed it missing. I still live in fear that he will work out the new PIN. I use the finger print too. Reading all your replies has made me realise how bad this is. I can’t reason with him and eventually will need to leave without telling him xx

OP posts:

Original poster

blueskyair · 30/11/2024 11:48

Nanny0gg · 30/11/2024 11:23

The laws have changed

Don't know if I've missed it, but do you own your home

What are your pension situations? (both of you)

You have options

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The house and bank account are in joint names. I paid a large deposit for the house originally after he couldn’t provide his share at the last minute saying because of problems with his ex. This has only just occurred to me recently how off this was. He has a good pension, I don’t, although until recently I have always worked, mostly full time, and am going back to work soon. We both have the full state pension due when we retire. He’s always ploughed everything into his private pension saying it’s for us. He’s 12 years older.

OP posts:

Nanny0gg · 30/11/2024 11:23

blueskyair · 29/11/2024 14:48

His temper is awful and a few months ago he got so aggressive and was physically raging at me and (although has never physically hurt/hit me) and afterwards when things were calmer I said I would need to call the police if it happened again, he just laughed and said ‘they didn’t help you last time’ in reference to my previous relationship experiences of DV when police didn’t act because of ‘lack of physical injuries’. I feel like he’s got a very complex personality, like he’s seemingly friendly and helpful but only if you’re 100% compliant.

The laws have changed

Don't know if I've missed it, but do you own your home

What are your pension situations? (both of you)

You have options

Fenellapitstop · 30/11/2024 11:20

So much has changed in how domestic abuse is dealt with by the police in the past 20 years. I know the idea of talking to anyone or leaving is scary. But start getting things in order while not saying anything. There is help out there now.

The other thing to look at having on your phone is hollieguard. It is possible to hide the apps if he's the type to go through your phone

Original poster

blueskyair · 30/11/2024 11:13

Fenellapitstop · 30/11/2024 10:06

Please call women's aid and start getting some support.

Have a look at the brightsky app, download it and keep a diary of what is happening and how you feel. Do not tell your husband what you are doing.

Please consider if you can keeping some things at your work like birth certificates, passports and bank account details just in case

Thank you, I will have a look at the app I hadn’t heard of it before xx

OP posts:

Original poster

blueskyair · 30/11/2024 11:10

crochetandshit · 30/11/2024 09:50

This part made me gasp out loud.
He has learned some therapy speak and is weaponising it against you.

I would actually advise you to challenge him as little as possible while you make arrangements to leave as soon as humanly possible.
I really think he will escalate massively.
Stay safe OP.

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Thank you, I think you’re right. The therapy speak is because I’ve needed therapy and I have tried endlessly to explain to him what I’ve learnt about his behaviour and how I need to feel safe. I feel so naive because I did this rather than just leaving, I just kept thinking he would get it eventually if I explained properly. I have also noticed him doing lots of writing on his phone when he’s angry with me. I wondered if he’s writing stuff about me ‘controlling him’ and it really frightens me that he will flip the whole thing on me if I leave, he’s so good at networking (like my ex) and in a very well respected job and knows a lot of people, the fear of what I’ll go through is overwhelming. Thanks everyone for replies, receiving these feels life changing xx

OP posts:

Badburyrings · 30/11/2024 11:00

Deadbeatex · 29/11/2024 14:55

I assume your previous experience of DV was over 30yrs ago? The police back then didn't recognise DV as a crime but look at how many new laws there are now and specific charges around coercive control etc. They may not have helped you then but they WILL help you now. If you need to call them then ask for an officer trained in domestic abuse

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This. Please OP do some research on coercive control. It’s now a crime. You absolutely can get help.

Igmum · 30/11/2024 10:56

So sorry you are going through this OP. To spend 30 years in fear is terrible. Well done for labelling his behaviour. Please leave him if you can

Fenellapitstop · 30/11/2024 10:06

Please call women's aid and start getting some support.

Have a look at the brightsky app, download it and keep a diary of what is happening and how you feel. Do not tell your husband what you are doing.

Please consider if you can keeping some things at your work like birth certificates, passports and bank account details just in case

crochetandshit · 30/11/2024 09:50

Sparklfairy · 29/11/2024 14:08

He says he’s not being controlled by me telling him where he can put his hands.

This is really bad. Like REALLY bad. Your body autonomy trumps everything. I'd say 'does he not see the hypocrisy in what he's saying - refusing to 'be controlled' yet controlling you' but it completely minimises the seriousness of this.

Take what he said in any other context. What if you said to someone, 'I'm going to stab you, and you're not going to control me by taking my knife away, because I want to stab you and that's that.' Does that person then lose all right to object to being stabbed? Do they have to allow themselves to be stabbed because you said so and you don't want to be 'controlled'? Would the police shrug off a murder charge?

Fucking ludicrous.

This part made me gasp out loud.
He has learned some therapy speak and is weaponising it against you.

I would actually advise you to challenge him as little as possible while you make arrangements to leave as soon as humanly possible.
I really think he will escalate massively.
Stay safe OP.

napody · 30/11/2024 09:31

He will become more aggressive as he realises that his 'kingdom' is about to come crashing down

Totally agree @cariadm . He's built a kingdom where the rules of decent behaviour don't apply, through sheer manipulation.

OP I just want to say I'm so glad you posted, even thinking straight enough to do that is really impressive. Please look after yourself.

Sceptical123 · 30/11/2024 09:28

He’s angry that you are ‘controlling’ him controlling you? 🤷🏼‍♀️ I don’t see how this will work. He’s been used to getting his own way for 30 years and it doesn’t sound like he cares how you feel at all. Sorry OP I don’t think this is going to change unless you change it.

BusyMum47 · 30/11/2024 09:20

NO-ONE is entitled to YOUR body! NO-ONE!!!! Get out. He's dangerous.

napody · 30/11/2024 08:53

blueskyair · 29/11/2024 22:58

Thank you. It’s been so helpful to see such strong, hard hitting responses to something I have found incredibly confusing and extremely difficult to share with anyone. Ironically the Giselle Pelicot case you referred to has resonated with me. I grew up in a DV household with an alcoholic M and SF, and I know this has affected my sense of agency my whole life. I had hoped for some level of support from MN but also still feared not being understood (also from my previous experience) especially without providing the full detailed picture, so I chose the issue which is currently creating the most tension/arguments just to give a snapshot. Most of these arguments are in the early hours of the morning when I’ve held my boundary in bed and he angrily demands we sit up and discuss ‘my behaviour’. I will keep returning to all your replies when I need clarity xx

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Yes exactly, I think the Gisele Pelicot case has resonated with so many because as you say, it's about agency. Those men are really arguing that the didnt need her permission for sex because they had her husbands persmission, as if she was owned by him. Even when the surface details are not as shocking or obvious it's a bit of a 'scales falling from your eyes' moment for many.

But in your case I'm sure it resonated more than most. You can't even feel safe in your own bed with your own partner. Totally agree with @peggymitchellscameo , waking you/ starting an argument in the small hours when you were asleep is particularly abusive. And the whole atmosphere of fear and control he has built up over many years makes me honestly really worried for you.

I agree with pps- Women's Aid. And confiding in a trusted real life person if you can (WA will no doubt discuss this with you too and will go at your pace). Please reach out and keep contact with them.

EnterFunnyNameHere · 30/11/2024 07:53

He says he’s not being controlled by me telling him where he can put his hands.

That's honestly so sinister. Would that mean you're being controlling by refusing sex, or not letting him hit you? Where does it end.

You are being abused OP, please get yourself out of this situation with the support of agencies like Woman's Aid etc, I'm worried for your safety.

CoffeeCup14 · 30/11/2024 06:25

PeriPeriMam · 30/11/2024 03:58

I'm going to strongly disagree with this advice in the context of obvious domestic abuse here. OP, this man will keep pushing your boundaries whatever you do to set them, his behaviour is highly abusive and you are quite likely to find yourself in danger if/when you truly assert your boundaries here. You are not the problem. Get that Women's Aid adviser and get a safe plan to get out. I'm sorry, but if he believes he has a right over your body and has done for years he may well not take kindly when the penny drops.

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Yes, I agree with you - I was reflecting on my experience of setting boundaries in a different context. For me, setting boundaries and being able to hold them has been really hard but really worthwhile. But when other posters have pointed out the risks of doing this in this situation, I agreed with them.