Secondary school does not allow D.Martens

They're both boots. You've finally got it.

Are they....deliberately?

Obviously you know?

Are you a teacher or not? Earlier you were writing about ‘our profession’. Now you are talking about ‘teachers’ or are you just bullshitting and stirr8ng?

The bullying and uniform issues are two separate issues. Instructing the school that they should be focusing elsewhere isn't going to 1. Magically give them the time/resources to deal with the bullying or 2. Help your case.

Certain hair colours and cuts were banned when I was at school - I always thought that was ridiculous as a teenager (and still do!) but accepted that if I was at their school, I followed their rules.
Some kids rebelled at length, backed up by their parents, and these were the same people that continued to be disruptive (not just regarding uniform/hair) all the way up to year 13. It sets a precedent of 'this teacher is stupid/wrong and my parents will back me up anyway'.

You're not teaching her a good life lesson by disregarding the rules. Sometimes everyone has to follow rules they don't like, and that don't particularly make sense to them. As long as these rules are not discriminatory or offensive, that's just how things are. It's how they are in the workplace, too

Follow
The
Bloody
Rules

The person I was responding to had specifically said they couldn’t deal with major issues like bullying because they had to deal with uniform violations. So to their mind the two are mutually exclusive.

And a school’s ‘ethos’ would be pretty meaningless if it could tolerate bullying and massive disruption, but not a student wearing the wrong shoes.

I think you answered your own question in the header - your daughter's school does not allow doc martins! By letting your daughter wear them you are the rule breaker.

If you have bigger issues and believe you picked the wrong school then raise the issues and look at alternative schools.

But lots of schools only allow shoes and not boots. I would stick to the uniform.

It’s invoked regularly by teachers on this website. And to be honest it seems like at some schools it is extremely difficult to exclude even for serious misbehavior.

It’s funny. I would have thought rampant bullying and violence would be bigger reasons for teachers to leave the profession.

But I suppose you can live with those because they primarily affect students, whereas parents like this challenge your own authority?

The sad thing is that teachers really do suffer from unwarranted disrespect. But I don’t think a single reasoning adult would come away from this thread with more respect for teachers than they started with.

@KillerTomato7 "Teachers are always saying that behavior is out of control because you just can’t discipline students anymore."

Not something I've heard from teachers, to be honest.

So the teachers and senior staff at this school, given limited time and resources, are deliberately prioritizing uniform violations over addressing more important things like bullying?

We don’t know this. They could easily be doing both. Plus many schools see wearing a uniform as part of the overall ethos re behaviour and discipline.

Honestly I think you’re being U. You’re conflating two issues.

If your point is that the school is not dealing with bullying that’s fine, but it doesn’t sound as though your daughter is being bulled. You’ve brought the relevant video to the attention of the head teacher and she’s replied to say it’s being dealt with and the police have been informed. That should be the end of it.

Plus even if their action on bullying isn’t great your daughter isn’t justified in ignoring uniform rules. Uniform in many schools is part of the discipline policy.

If you do move schools I would read the uniform policy properly and make sure your daughter is prepared to abide by it and that you’ll step in to reinforce it if necessary.

So the teachers and senior staff at this school, given limited time and resources, are deliberately prioritizing uniform violations over addressing more important things like bullying?

That would seem to be evidence of gross incompetence.

We don't actually know that the school doesn't tackle bullying though. We have a single yt video (of a grown woman beating a disabled child outside of school) and the word of an 11 year old who wants to kick people and a mother who thinks rules don't apply to her child.

Teachers are always saying that behavior is out of control because you just can’t discipline students anymore. Which indeed seeks to be the case here since the school has rampant bullying and violence. However, now you’re saying they’re going to exclude a child because of her shoes.

So which is it? Is it that schools can in fact exclude problem students but choose not to? Perhaps some schools care more about creating the appearance of order by chasing up things like uniform infractions, than they do about addressing real issues like bullying.

Honestly this woman will just argue with anything. You won't get through to her.

You can see that they are not remotely similar though surely? They may both technically be "boots" but one is a gentle flexion of the no boots rule, the other bends it right in two. Get your DD kickers if you feel so strongly that she needs to wear boots.

Again @corporategreen Why. Not. Buy. DM. Shoes?

If it’s true that lots wear them (and as I’ve said it’s a constant argument when people are called out on a rule infraction that ‘everyone’ does x when they don’t) then I’d say they are somewhere between the pictures and DM boots. It’s hard t9 define precisely where shoe ends and boot begins. Kickers are arguable (though I’d be inclined to put them on the boot side) and school has obviously decided they are acceptable. DM ankle boots are unquestionably boots and I can’t see any way you would think them appropriate even if every other child in the school wore the kickers ones.

That may well be the case. In which case, make it to the school and get the policy changed. As it stands it’s shoes only.

My friend has spent the last four years back and forth to school, in meetings with teachers, the head, the governors, anyone who will listen, fighting a uniform rule she doesn’t agree with. Her daughter is in detentions over it week in, week out. For four years. She is no closer to winning the argument than she was when her daughter walked into that school back in year 7.

What a colossal waste of everyone’s time and energy. Don’t be like my friend.

This school has a no boots rule though.
I love DMs and wear them most of the time. DM shoes would be acceptable to the school.

It’s not a straight choice between boots and ballet flats though, is it?