Asking fathers permission to propose

How did you decide without one of you saying something like 'let's get married'?That's a proposal. It doesn't need to be all knees and hearts and flowers. It's just the question.

I have so many questions...
What do you think is so lovely about excluding your mum? Are you not your "mum's little girl" too? Why is she finding out about your engagement after your father? Why is he more important than her?

It's an outdated tradition but then again so many traditions are outdated if you actually look into the meaning. Should a bride's father walk her up the aisle? It's based on the father handing over possession of his daughter to the husband. A bride's parents paying for the wedding is a form of dowry, paying the husband to take responsibility for their daughter off their hands.

So many traditions which involve male ownership of women have fallen by the wayside (rape is now a crime against the victim herself rather than a crime for devaluing her father's property), maybe these should too.

She had no idea the surprise proposal was coming. DS purposely chose a very random date and place where she'd be least expecting it.

But that’s my point — they weren’t.

So your DH had a conversation with your parents but you didn’t give the same respect to your future in-laws?

My DH didn't ask my parents 40 years ago and I would have been annoyed if he had.

That being said, both our SILs asked DH and it was really nice knowing that a special romantic moment was coming for both DD and keeping those happy secrets for a little while. We really felt included in their lives.

But...the period between deciding to marry and marrying is the time you are engaged to be married. Unless you can pull off deciding and marrying in the same instant (you can't) everyone has a period of engagement.
There seem to be a lot of people in this thread who don't understand what the terms actually mean and are trying to invest them with some sort of weight and anti feminist slant they don't have.

the Jane Austen characters fathers were doing a due diligence on the man in the main. Was he really single, could he support a wife & family, did he really intend to get married or was he a messer.

Why go mad instead of talking it through. If he had it would be because you'd never shown objection to the idea.
No need for drama.

My father walked me down the aisle. But I didn't think of it as giving me away, those words weren't used.

He was just accompanying me, and it made him part of the special day.
I was in my 40s btw!

DH spoke to my DPs before he proposed, partly because he knew they were both quite traditional people who'd appreciate the gesture, but also because my DM was in the final stages of cancer, and he wanted her to know that there would be a wedding, even if she wasn't going to be there to see it, and he wanted her to feel part of it, and part of our future lives together.

He asked for both their blessing, not just my dad's, because theirs was a real partnership of a marriage, and he respected that. DM was very moved; DF was moved by how much DH had considered DM's feelings - which he thought was a pretty good indication of how he'd consider mine, as his wife. So yes, maybe old-fashioned, but also heartfelt.

I think it depends upon the relationship you have with your father, and the relationship the guy has with his father in law.

I get that it's old fashioned but it's a harmless tradition, really. Some people like it, others don't and the guy should, if he knows his partner at all, have a feel for whether their partner would appreciate the gesture or not.

So why didn't his DW check she had your support?

My dad would have torn a bloody strip off DH if he'd done something so sexist and regressive as to have asked my father before asking me. And rightly so.

My brother asked his future FIL before marrying his (second) wife. First was estranged from her father, as I recall, so I don't think it came up.

My parents and I were united in finding that absolutely ridiculous. But DBro has daughters, so I guess that's what he'd like. He's always skewed more sexist, though.

it is so outdated

so is waiting for a man to ask and being given away

we are no longer property

@Parker231 Asking my dad was more about tradition and respect, not seeking permission in the literal sense. Ultimately the choice was mine and I would have agreed without his permission. My dad was made up and so was my mum when they got home after their few hours out. She didn't feel put out at all as again it's just about tradition, and same as my parents and his parents they had asked the father's permission so it's just a natural thing to want / expect. Of course I didn't ask my father in laws permission - he'd laugh at me and ask if I'm feeling okay 🤣

I've never thought of being my father's possession and he's never made me feel like I am. I'm his little girl (granted not so little anymore) who he adores and treasures so it's just a nice respectful thing to do.

If you are a supportive family then, surely, a blessing is implied? Or are you saying you wouldn't have supported her had she not insisted on a blessing? In which case this is surely not supportive at all.

When someone says 'shall we get married' or similar, that's a proposal of marriage. Just like saying 'shall we have a sandwich?' Is a proposal to have lunch. No kneeling required...

There are so many traditions around marriage that really, when you think about it, are totally ridiculous and yet, I find myself liking them. DH did talk to my parents (not just my dad). He knew it was silly but he felt he should. It was funny as basically my parents told him he' dbetter ask me - i thas nothing to do with them but that they liked him very much and would love for him to be part of our family. Ditto, my dad walked me down the aisle. As a die hard feminist, I struggled with that - such a silly, antiquated tradition and yet, I wanted him to do it.

If you read Jane Austen you will see that mostly people got engaged first and then asked for parental permission. I don’t know how it got twisted into any expectation that anyone should ask permission before proposing.
Whatever, it IS outdated and I didn’t think anyone did it any more.

Blimey. That's a bit old hat. We didn't even bother about this 50 years ago let alone today.

Are your DC men? Did their partners speak to you ?

In my case it wasn't asking permission it was more about hoping DH had their approval to marry as we were quite young (22, married at 23).
DS spoke to his now DW's DM and grandparents before he proposed. He also showed them the ring. He did it as a mark of respect but also to let them in on the secret (DH and I knew too).
They were childhood sweethearts and had been together for 12 years (mid 20s) and despite owning a house together for several years were still fairly young by today's standards.
His DW was delighted he'd included them in the proposal, especially as her GP died not long afterwards, before the wedding. It meant a lot to her that they showed support for their union. It wasn't about seeking permission, DS knew he had that already.

Both of our adult DC spoke to their future in laws before proposing.

I thought it was lovely.

They also told us that they would be doing this and the date and what they had organised to make the moment special.

We were excited to hear of the plans.