Asking fathers permission to propose

I honestly don't understand where 'respect' fits in with this. Why does it show 'respect' for a man to ask his partners parents (Dad!) if he can propose? How does differ from old fashioned patriarchy? Respect for tradition? A deeply sexist tradition left over from the days when marriage involved a woman being exchanged for financial dynasty building?

Talk about being happy to join the family etc, lovely, but in a close family an engaged couple already have family support for the relationship. In a toxic/ non functioning family they are best to keep their distance and especially not pander to the idea of permission or respect or other status plays.

Why go mad?

Because discovering your possible future spouse subscribes to such sexist, outdated bollocks would be quite a suprise to many of us.

We have never shown an objection to the idea like we haven't shown objections to primogeniture, smoking indoors or classroom whippings.

Because by the time he proposed he’d already had the conversation with them. It didn’t need to happen twice 🙄

That is a real proposal. Someone said shall we marry (or whatever) and the other said yes. Proposal of marriage.

How can your fiancée promise to make you happy? That seems like putting a lot of strain on a marriage before if even starts.

You make yourself happy

CBA to find the post to quote but this is not about 'man bashing'.
It's about wanting to get rid of the last vestiges of a horribly sexist understanding of marriage partnerships. It's an anachronism which really isn't very nice at all if you think about it.

My Dad would have laughed at DH if he'd asked, and rightly said 'no' as he clearly didn't know his daughter well enough to think I'd be okay with being considered anyone's property.

Thankfully DH does not think that way. The only person's permission he needed was mine, if permission is even the right word as it's only asking.

I don't understand friends who proudly tell me their husbands asked their fathers' permission because it's 'tradition'. It's a tradition from women had few rights and were considered property of whichever man they 'belonged' to.

But @kiraric one of you must ah e eventually used the word marriage. That was the proposal. Whoever it came from, however long the conversation was, a proposal is simply the suggestion of getting married.

Good for your dad.

My partner didn't ask my parents but there was also no 'real' proposal. One morning we started talking about marriage and decided that yes, we would like to get married. We then phoned our parents to tell them the news. It was very nice to be able to share that news with my parents first hand, and I would have possibly been a bit miffed if they already knew that it was on the cards.

My very posh, traditional BIL asked my dad before proposing to my sister. My dad said it was nothing to do with him and that his daughters could do as they pleased! In a nice way of course.

He also declined to walk my sister down the aisle (civil wedding) so I got to do it and was over the moon 😊!

Same here - it was a discussion between us about our future. No manufactured event.

It wasn't really like that for us.

It wasn't one conversation, more a series of conversations over a long period of time about how we felt about each other, what was important, did we want to get married eventually, when/how.

It really wasn't like one of us said "shall we get married?" kneeling aside.

My DM (long divorced) was annoyed DH didn't ask HER for permission and even put it in a letter! Never understood her mind set!

My sister's now husband did this, we thought it was rather sweet.

This has nothing to do with being brought up well or having manners. Just because something is tradition doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a good thing, especially when it’s rooted in patriarchy. Asking a father for his daughter’s hand in marriage was traditionally done when women were considered as property- first the property of the father, then the property of the husband. It was the exchange of property, just rooted in chauvinism and misogyny. There’s nothing romantic about continuing this kind of tradition. And if it wasn’t for the feminists you and I would still be seen as second class citizens, with Jack shit rights, only considered our husband’s property, and nothing more.

That's how I did it.
"so... Do we get married?" 😂

I'm getting married in 2 weeks. My STBDH asked both my parents. We are both mid-forties and my parents late70's. It was less 'ask' - more like a promise to make me happy, etc etc and it meant a lot to him to do it - me not so much! My mum found it very sweet, my dad was slightly bemused. Didn't remotely feel like a possession and think it is quite a harmless tradition these days.

I’m confused? They weren’t asking permission?

I'm nearly 75 and nobody followed that in my day so I doubt anyone does now :-). A lot of people still make a thing about bride being 'given away', which I also don't like. We are not the property of our parents.

In earlier times, children were their parents' possessions until they were 21 but that was a very long time ago.

My dad always said he'd say no if asked. And that he'd tell me to say no as well. Because any man who thought i needed my dad's permission to do something isn't a man I should marry.

If i ever get married, I think I'd like my sons to walk me down the aisle. I've lived with them longer than I've ever lived with anyone else.

patriarchal nonsense.

Why not ask their mother too? why ask anyone?

as i said on that other thread: we are never going to have equality while young women keep up with this utter piffle.

I don't know anyone who has done this, personally. Early 30s. It is pointless. You're not going to break up if he says no, are you??

My grandmother's engagement was a whole palavar though; my granddad turned up with his parents one rainy afternoon and they sat long into the night eating, drinking, and negotiating the dowry etc. No one took any notice of the fact that my grandmother didn't actually want to get married.

I'm so glad we live in different times and places

I agree, I’ve always thought when people say “we’re getting engaged on x date” is really strange.
In my understanding, engagement is not a relationship status but the period of time between the ‘shall we get married’ conversation is agreed, whether that includes an out of the blue down on one knee extravaganza or is just a chat while your watching Eastenders or whatever, and the wedding.
If a showy proposal happens after the initial chat I think you are already engaged and the proposal is just for show.