Asking fathers permission to propose

DH sort of asked my parents the permission to marry me but it’s 30 years ago and he did it because I asked him knowing that they would really like this. But of course it’s after we discussed everything

I’m Justin, and I’m disputing the PP (@MumOfOneAllAlone ) position that a male should ask her “because he’d ask a man” but a female partner shouldn’t ask her.

No tolerance of patriarchal traditions whatsoever. It’s outdated nonsense.

For me my wedding was traditional. But the marriage is modern. As my parents' was. My dad did his share of housework and childcare and he was born in 1937. That's more important to me.

DD,s bf asked DH for his blessing. He wanted to surprise her and asked us to say nothing
After that silence. ,6 months have passed They are still together and seem very happy. Maybe he changed his mind. Maybe she said no. None of our business but just idly curious.@

People often refer to Jane Austen in discussing traditions like this- just want to point out 2 things about Austen books:

None of the reasonable men in Austen's books asks for permission to propose. (Mr Collins, that paradigm of absurdity, is an exception.)

BOTH man and woman, (if they are not wayward and the parents are not bullies) need consent to actually marry, from whatever parents (of whichever sex) are still alive. The only situation in any of the books where consent is withheld is to the MAN (Henry Tilney in Northanger Abbey) and the young couple have to wait till HIS father is talked around to saying an unenthusiastic yes.

I would have been furious if my husband asked my Dad, mostly because my mum is the sort of person that lords it over you or brags that she knew something first. I couldn't bear the smugness.

Well yes, OK, I'd argue how far can you really divorce a tradition from its origins, but for the sake of argument I'll grant you no commercial/financial or ownership connotations to this permission asking and granting.

I'd still question why, if it's purely an emotional thing and is purely about families being joined and a promise of love and care being made, is the tradition only about a man asking another man for permission? If we're being modern and enlightened, I have heard of instances where a man asks both his wife-to-be's parents, the father and the mother, but I've never heard of a woman going and asking a man's parents for permission to marry their son, or even in a lesbian couple of either woman asking the other woman's parents for permission, or in a gay couple of either man asking the other man's parents. Why is it solely that a man needs to ask another man if he is allowed to love and take care of a woman? Can men not just do that without a formal handshake on the deal? Do the women not also need to love and take care of their families, or is it just assumed that they'd do that without asking/agreeing first? Are the respective mothers and daughters not part of these families too and do they not get a say, after all presumably the bride-to-be is also her mother's little girl and little princess (ick), her mother probably did at least as much if not more caring for her in her childhood than her father did and feels some form of ongoing affection for her, does she not get at least an equal say with the father of who now assumes that responsibility of caring for her? And what about the groom's mother, doesn't she get to give her blessing/permission as to who gets the privilege of washing her little prince's pants and cooking his dinner, or is the little prince trusted to pick his own wife unlike the inept princess who needs her dad to look out for her and get rid of any unsuitable suitors? It just all still reeks of misogynistic and paternalistic undercurrents to me...

Weird and totally inappropriate to me, anyway.

So is it a cultural thing amongst your friends and family because I got married nearly 30 years ago and I don’t know anyone that has done this

you are making a huge deal out of nothing.
It doesn’t mean that now. I would like to know the percentage of western cultured fathers in the UK who genuinely feel they have ‘possession’ of their adult daughters. Close to 0 I would expect.
It’s more about tradition for lots of couples. Just the same as wearing a white dress or holding a bouquet kr having bridesmaids. It’s about the person who is intending to propose consulting the intended family as a sign of respeft for that family. Traditionally that’s the man asking the woman’s family but I wouldn’t think it strange if a woman was to propose to as their man’s family (same for gay or lesbian couples)
My DH asked my dad and I thought that was so sweet - it took a lot of guts to speak to him as it’s a shy person and was quite young at the time.
All my sisters DH have asked, loads of friend DH’s asked as well. It’s standard amongst my friends and family. Granted this was 15 years ago but not uncommon at all.

Yes, I don’t understand JustinThyme’s position - there seems to be a backhanded tolerance of patriarchal traditions in there. If you do want to be asked, why doesn’t that apply to a lesbian partner too? Is it only men who get to treat their partners like a commodity?

Really!
So are women still asked these days if they want to include it or not!
I had no idea
I think asking a women is very controlling, I’m shocked!

I don’t recall this coming up when I got married…..maybe they saw me coming and thought better of it. 🤣

I asked my DH to ask my dad (20 years ago) as I thought my dad would like the tradition. As it was he just said "What does
SharpOpalNewt think?"

My DDs are too young for this, but when my neice got married recently her husband had asked both of her parents for their permission before proposing. I think it's nice but I agree with PPs that the spirit of it is asking for their blessing rather than their permission. If they had said no I think he would still have proposed, but it would have been a clear message of disapproval.

That's an odd thing for you to "know". If I'm reading it right, this potential future partner isn't someone around at the moment? So you can't say that you know you'd be asked if you were a man.

What about the man father or either or the mothers? Do they not need to be included too?

They weren’t checking out the suitor’s background, whether they could support a wife, whether they really meant to marry, etc.

The last one definitely not, as if a man got engaged but was just messing about they could be sued for breach of contract. Not that that happened very often, but there was a matter of honour. That’s what a large part of Sense and Sensibility is about.

It became non compulsory in the 20s but brides could still opt to include the version with obey. (I don't know if it is still an available option but I distinctly remember Sarah Ferguson said "obey" at her 1987 wedding, which caused some surprise as Diana had opted out of saying it in 1981.)

My son in law did tell me that he was going to ask my daughter to marry him. I think this was a nice thing to do (note...he wasn't asking permission, he was being courteous and informing me of his intentions to propose, which was respectful).

There's no 'dad' in our relationship as I've brought up my children alone (their dad has never been involved).

I was very emotional as a mum when this lovely young man nervously told me of his plans to propose to my daughter. It was very sweet, not at all what some posters are making it out to be. There was no 'possession' intent...merely a respectful conversation.

I honestly don't understand where 'respect' fits in with this. Why does it show 'respect' for a man to ask his partners parents (Dad!) if he can propose?

I agree. My sister's husband called my mum (didn't have my dad's number) and asked her to pass the phone to dad. Literally just completely bypassing mum in the conversation. I don't think that shows respect at all tbh.

Same! I find it so weird. Surely if you're with someone you love, you talk about getting married?! So why is it this big weird event, where it's all an alleged surprise? It's so bizarre.

My OH did the same for the same reasons. It is nice to make the dads feel included

One of my oldest friends asked the father's permission to marry his wife (they tied the knot earlier this year.) My friend is sweet and sometimes likes to do things in the "traditional" way. The sexist connotations/idea of women being property will likely not even have occurred to him.

When I learned he asked permission, I did think at the time that it's probably something hardly anyone ever does any more.

No one is telling women, who like the idea, that they are being controlled. What is being pointed out is that this “tradition” is not really romantic at all and is not rooted, in any way, in any kind of respect. People are allowed to point these things out without being told to chill out.

Well yes, he probably had the same conversation with his own parents about whether they were supportive of him proposing and me joining their family too!

I think he spoke to all parents to be honest, including my mum. He also spoke to all his friends! I was the very last to know he was proposing!