Am I or is school BU?

LottieMary · 29/11/2024 08:02

SchoolProblemHelp · 28/11/2024 18:34

@LottieMary I do yes. The way it was explained in the email was that the teachers were given time as part of the inset day to read the plans but that the system went down and there were not able to access them. As such they are now expected to read them in their own time and as it’s their own time they can’t make them do so.

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This is also nonsense - they may well have given them time in inset but could have swapped if systems fail, or given time at another meeting the next week. IEPs should also be regularly reviewed so teachers will read updated ones all the time - we don’t have loads but probably I read 3-4 a half term. They take seconds and it’s a requirement as everyone’s said under the equality act to make adjustments needed
im so sorry the school is not doing their job

GrammarTeacher · 29/11/2024 04:59

SchoolProblemHelp · 28/11/2024 18:34

@LottieMary I do yes. The way it was explained in the email was that the teachers were given time as part of the inset day to read the plans but that the system went down and there were not able to access them. As such they are now expected to read them in their own time and as it’s their own time they can’t make them do so.

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Nonsense. It's part of their job to read it. A huge proportion of what we are made to do is in our own time!

Original poster

SchoolProblemHelp · 28/11/2024 23:37

KillerTomato7 · 28/11/2024 21:46

I agree. Move the child. However, this school probably should be exposed publicly given that it seems like an ongoing, systematic pattern of misconduct affecting SEND and potentially other vulnerable students as well. I believe the OP mentioned an OFSTED report citing abnormally low numbers of minority students and those on free meals.

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Yes this is correct. Ofsted commented that they have well below average SEN children and free school meal children and just 3% of children are from an ethnic minority background.

OP posts:

Brickiscool · 28/11/2024 21:58

At my secondary you can directly email the class teachers. I would be tempted to write one email, explaining yours daughters tics and other issues. Explaining the punishments she has received due to them and CC it to every single teacher she has, plus the head of year, sendo and head and a governor!
If you feel that is over kill then simply head of year and sendco. But ask for a response and a follow on call.

BrightYellowTrain · 28/11/2024 21:49

It may be the school is only meaning to list the primary need at the top, but if that is the case a) it needs to be clearer because the top gives the impression SEMH needs are the only SEN needs, and b) I wouldn’t expect SEMH to be DD’s primary need with her ASD.

It is a poor plan all round, really.

Dragonsandcats · 28/11/2024 21:49

I’m so sorry, this school sounds dreadful. I’m not sure what the answer is but I think they could be doing an awful lot more to support your dd.

KillerTomato7 · 28/11/2024 21:46

Phineyj · 28/11/2024 21:29

You can't change a whole school OP.

Your daughter can't be the collateral damage.

Have you had advice from Smira on the situational mutism? I suspect it's more common than people think.

I agree. Move the child. However, this school probably should be exposed publicly given that it seems like an ongoing, systematic pattern of misconduct affecting SEND and potentially other vulnerable students as well. I believe the OP mentioned an OFSTED report citing abnormally low numbers of minority students and those on free meals.

Original poster

SchoolProblemHelp · 28/11/2024 21:43

FrippEnos · 28/11/2024 21:37

SchoolProblemHelp

Thanks for the reply, I am sorry if I come across as pushy and not supportive.

Looking at the form

Is it a screen print from the schools parent portal?

Its not very good, The use of gender instead of sex is usually quite indicative of a management and SEND system that looks good but generally has no depth to it.
Where you have level of need : monitoring is IMO wrong it should be active as monitoring implies that no response is required by teachers only the SEND department.
The passes required reads like a tick list that no one has checked off.
The reasonable adjustment section isn't to bad but it mentions the passes "below" but they are above (minor but annoying), and where are the suggested strategies to aid her learning?
The ones that are there are very generic or should be happening as good practice.
The sensory and physical is interesting but is again generic and not linked to lessons where they could be.

It looks like a general form that has been "dumped" on the system with no thought as to who will be using it.

@FrippEnos Yes it’s off the parent portal and that is exactly what the teachers see, or should see if they bother to look.

A lot of the sensory stuff was added after incidents in school, she was made to dance bare foot for example and she had a meltdown and fled the area but yes it would be more helpful to link this to the lesson itself.

I agree there is no information about strategies for managing this and additional support and it’s simply a list (that isn’t followed anyway).

This is all very useful for when it comes to discussing the complaint I’ve made.

OP posts:

Original poster

SchoolProblemHelp · 28/11/2024 21:39

BrightYellowTrain · 28/11/2024 21:25

You have missed DD’s name in one of the photographs. You might want to ask MNHQ to remove the photo with it in.

On the learning plan, at the top where it says ‘SEN needs: Social emotional and mental health (SEMH)’. DD has needs in other areas too - Cognition and Learning, Communication and Interaction, Physical and Sensory. I know they go on to expand on other areas of needs further down, but only listing one area at the top gives a false impression to anyone who just glances at it. If the ‘Level of need: Monitoring’ is related to what DD is coded as, she should be coded as K - SEN Support. Rather than N - Monitoring.

I wouldn’t deregister and EHE. It is easier, although not easy, to get support when DC remain in the system. Bluntly, you are someone’s problem. Whereas if you EHE it is easier for professionals to sweep DD’s needs under the carpet. Although that doesn’t mean they have to attend school full time if they can’t do that. At the minute, the LA has a duty to ensure DD receives a suitable, full-time education. If you EHE, the LA will say you are making suitable alternative arrangements thereby relieving them of this duty. And if the EHE the LA has an incentive to refuse to assess or refuse to issue an EHCP because they know if they refuse there is a higher chance you will continue to EHE.

@BrightYellowTrain Thanks I have reported the post so mumsnet can remove it. Well spotted and thanks for letting me know!

Also good point about them
not listing the full spectrum of need at the top. In regards to the level of need, I have said before that I don’t think she should sit at monitoring level but they disagreed.

OP posts:

FrippEnos · 28/11/2024 21:37

SchoolProblemHelp

Thanks for the reply, I am sorry if I come across as pushy and not supportive.

Looking at the form

Is it a screen print from the schools parent portal?

Its not very good, The use of gender instead of sex is usually quite indicative of a management and SEND system that looks good but generally has no depth to it.
Where you have level of need : monitoring is IMO wrong it should be active as monitoring implies that no response is required by teachers only the SEND department.
The passes required reads like a tick list that no one has checked off.
The reasonable adjustment section isn't to bad but it mentions the passes "below" but they are above (minor but annoying), and where are the suggested strategies to aid her learning?
The ones that are there are very generic or should be happening as good practice.
The sensory and physical is interesting but is again generic and not linked to lessons where they could be.

It looks like a general form that has been "dumped" on the system with no thought as to who will be using it.

Phineyj · 28/11/2024 21:29

You can't change a whole school OP.

Your daughter can't be the collateral damage.

Have you had advice from Smira on the situational mutism? I suspect it's more common than people think.

rampy · 28/11/2024 21:28

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Hey you've not blanked her name out on the second photo. Maybe ask @mnhq to edit or remove?

BrightYellowTrain · 28/11/2024 21:25

You have missed DD’s name in one of the photographs. You might want to ask MNHQ to remove the photo with it in.

On the learning plan, at the top where it says ‘SEN needs: Social emotional and mental health (SEMH)’. DD has needs in other areas too - Cognition and Learning, Communication and Interaction, Physical and Sensory. I know they go on to expand on other areas of needs further down, but only listing one area at the top gives a false impression to anyone who just glances at it. If the ‘Level of need: Monitoring’ is related to what DD is coded as, she should be coded as K - SEN Support. Rather than N - Monitoring.

I wouldn’t deregister and EHE. It is easier, although not easy, to get support when DC remain in the system. Bluntly, you are someone’s problem. Whereas if you EHE it is easier for professionals to sweep DD’s needs under the carpet. Although that doesn’t mean they have to attend school full time if they can’t do that. At the minute, the LA has a duty to ensure DD receives a suitable, full-time education. If you EHE, the LA will say you are making suitable alternative arrangements thereby relieving them of this duty. And if the EHE the LA has an incentive to refuse to assess or refuse to issue an EHCP because they know if they refuse there is a higher chance you will continue to EHE.

Original poster

SchoolProblemHelp · 28/11/2024 21:22

Phineyj · 28/11/2024 21:14

Having read some of your follow up posts I am wondering if a change of school is something you should be strongly considering. It sounds so poorly run.

I teach secondary and I'm really shocked by the "can't make teachers read it" comment.

Everyone I work with would WANT to read it, quite aside from it being our duty to do so.

@Phineyj Thanks your input. We do think this is what we’re going to but it’s sad we have to do. And the school gets to continue “managing out” pupils with SEN needs rather than changing their practice. Even the ofsted report stated that the number of children with SEN needs is “well below” the national average along with children from a minority ethnic group and children on free school meals all “well below” the average. It saddens me that schools are allowed to effectively force children out of the school and no one questions this because it’s an ‘outstanding’ school with excellent exam results.

OP posts:

Phineyj · 28/11/2024 21:14

Having read some of your follow up posts I am wondering if a change of school is something you should be strongly considering. It sounds so poorly run.

I teach secondary and I'm really shocked by the "can't make teachers read it" comment.

Everyone I work with would WANT to read it, quite aside from it being our duty to do so.

Photodilemmas · 28/11/2024 21:11

SchoolProblemHelp · 28/11/2024 21:10

I’m a midwife so don’t think my patients would be impressed 🤣

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What about her dad?

Original poster

SchoolProblemHelp · 28/11/2024 21:10

Photodilemmas · 28/11/2024 21:09

That's a shame, what about temporarily whilst you change her schools? Can you work from home?

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I’m a midwife so don’t think my patients would be impressed 🤣

OP posts:

Photodilemmas · 28/11/2024 21:09

SchoolProblemHelp · 28/11/2024 21:06

@Photodilemmas We are looking into changing schools if we get nowhere with the complaint, which is what the school want I expect. But home schooling is not an option no. I work full time and can’t afford not to.

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That's a shame, what about temporarily whilst you change her schools? Can you work from home?

SchoolProblemHelp · 28/11/2024 21:08

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Original poster

SchoolProblemHelp · 28/11/2024 21:06

Photodilemmas · 28/11/2024 20:35

I never usually think this or suggest this but this poor girl, is there any way at all you could home school? The school sounds SO shit and she's being bullied. I would definitely home school if I could in this situation. Or at the very very least I'd switch her schools.

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@Photodilemmas We are looking into changing schools if we get nowhere with the complaint, which is what the school want I expect. But home schooling is not an option no. I work full time and can’t afford not to.

OP posts:

Original poster

SchoolProblemHelp · 28/11/2024 21:03

FrippEnos · 28/11/2024 20:00

SchoolProblemHelp

I am going to say it again, as you appear to ignoring the problem.
The SEND department is the issue.
Teachers are required to read the IEPs of the students in their class.
I suspect that the response form the SEND department is because they are spamming all of the teachers with all of the pupils IEPs etc.
If they are all indeed virtual then they are not putting the correct markers on the registers, if they are putting them there at all.
Yes some teachers will miss the information but for all of them to, there is a major issue with how it is being distributed to staff.

@FrippEnos I’m not ignoring it. I’m well aware the SEN team (and the whole school attitude towards SEN) is at fault. I’ve already made a formal complaint following advice on here.

OP posts:

AuditAngel · 28/11/2024 20:51

What I will say about DD’s school is they have listened. DD hates maths, but loves her maths teacher which I think is amazing.

they told parents not to help, but then give detentions if the kids don’t get 100%, it’s mad

Mama2many73 · 28/11/2024 20:42

I can't edit my previous post for some reason. I've just read more of the conversations and have seen you've added her IEP (which I can't read unfortunately)
Our fs has nowhere near the difficulties of your daughter but his plan has so much more than you DD's has on.

YES teachers can be told to read it, actually its part of their duty. If they do NOT that is NOT your issue, HOWEVER you then refuse to allow your child to be punished if school have not followed their own document.

She has pass to leave class, therefore she cannot be penalised for leaving class just because the teacher is ignorant of what is written on her IEP.

Stand up and make sure they are doing what they say they are doing. And as for a PP 'YES , BE THAT parent' and advocate for your child. If school are wrong call them out for it-

My rules are
Listen to schools side of a story
always be calm,
always be polite
Support them when appropriate
Call them out when appropriate

Photodilemmas · 28/11/2024 20:35

SchoolProblemHelp · 27/11/2024 23:48

Name changed for this as this situation is probably very recognisable to those who know me.

Having some issues with DD’s school at the moment and before I make a formal complaint want to know if I’m being an overprotective mum or if school is handling this wrong.

DD has Autism and Tourette’s Syndrome. Had lots of support in mainstream primary school, teacher’s aide, maths intervention as she is very behind in this, access to quiet area when overwhelmed, able to take time away when suffering tic attacks etc. All of this was provided at school monitoring level and so she has no EHCP in place and we are told she would not meet criteria for one as she was coping just fine with this support.

Went to high school this year and all of this support was withdrawn. New school say it was never a formal plan so no duty to provide it. Still claim she won’t meet EHCP level yet also don’t agree she needs school monitoring support she previously had.

Couple of recent incidents involve:

Being given detention for not finishing Maths work despite asking and not receiving help (we are aware she is 12 months behind in Maths and in a mixed ability class so she found this above her level).
Being given detention for walking out of lesson when suffering a tic attack as another child was laughing and imitating her tics back to her.
Being made to stand up in class and read aloud and told off for ‘being silly’ when she starting ticking due to nerves by a teacher who apparently had not been informed she has Tourette’s.
Being given behaviour points for ‘chewing gum’ despite it being known by the SEN team that one of her common tics is rolling her jaw as though she is chewing.
Being given behaviour points for ‘throwing’ a pencil that flew out of her hand when her arm ticked. And when I raised this with the school being told it is her responsibility to inform the teacher at the time that this was in fact a tic, despite this meaning having to disclose her medical history in front of the whole class including children who bully her for this.

The cumulation of the above now means she’s been put on report and has to approach each teacher in very lesson to ask them to write on her report and take it to the head of year at the end of the day. Something she is very anxious about doing as her Autism means she struggles to approach people.

Am I expecting too much of a mainstream school or should school be resolving these issues and stop punishing a child for their disability. If I could get her an EHCP and move her I would in a heartbeat but to get an EHCP you have to show that the school intervention isn’t enough and it was, in primary, but now school won’t put the support in place.

I never usually think this or suggest this but this poor girl, is there any way at all you could home school? The school sounds SO shit and she's being bullied. I would definitely home school if I could in this situation. Or at the very very least I'd switch her schools.

cansu · 28/11/2024 20:25

It depends. If things are exactly as you describe then the school is being awful but...
It sounds unlikely to me. There could well be an alternative reality where she is not working hard, is being disruptive and rude. Only you know the truth op.
On the support front you need to apply for an ehcp now.