Caused a scene in a cafe today. Now wondering if we were unreasonable

@DaNiYmaOHyd

many people speak more than one language. Many of the people who live in Wales might speak English as a second language, with the language at home being something like Cantonese, Urdu or Gujarati.

Unless Wales has a hugely disproportionate number of ethnic minority residents compared to the rest of the UK (highly unlikely), you are clutching at straws with this one.

That's not true any more. Since Welsh became compulsory in schools, many more children are first language Welsh.

Also, it completely depends on which area of Wales you're in. If you're in Cardiff, then yes, you probably won't hear much Welsh being spoken. Go further West to Carmarthenshire and you won't hear much English. For the people of Carmarthenshire, their first language is Welsh and they speak it as a first language to others. It's not as simple as, "English is the main language of Wales".

When I was at university and we used to have to wait for the phone in the hall of residence I used to hear one of my Welsh speaking housemates liberally peppering her conversation with English words.

@KimberleyClark , I think Gogs tend to speak more slowly and less singsongy than Hwntws, and I find the dialects different but have no difficult understanding anyone. Some word and phrases seem weird until you get used to them.

Maybe you're not as adept in English as you thought...

Probably because like most people from NW Wales I spent my whole youth only speaking Welsh. Your naivety (like most people outside of Wales) is lumping the entire country together. Many Welsh people do speak English as their first or only language, but we’re talking specifically here about the North and Anglesey. The majority are Welsh first language and only speak English for the benefit of tourists and those who have not learned the language. Hopefully at some point you can comprehend that English for those in NW Wales is a second language.

@Expletive , many people speak more than one language. Many of the people who live in Wales might speak English as a second language, with the language at home being something like Cantonese, Urdu or Gujarati.

I have a good idea of how much Welsh is spoken, and there are parts of Wales where there are hardly any Welsh-speakers, but there are places where the majority speak Welsh most of the day.

I'm a Welsh speaker but do not live in North Wales. I have lived there.

I’m a hwntw. IME it’s gogs who have trouble understanding us, not the other way around!

Is suspect if you are Welsh speaker who lives in North Wales you may have a distorted view of how much Welsh is actually spoken in the rest of the country.

I only know one gog and he only speaks Welsh to other gogs. Locals find him difficult to understand.

@DaNiYmaOHyd

I can.

Population of Wales: c. 3,164,000 2024

Number of Welsh speaking residents: 538,000 2021

Source: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/language/bulletins/welshlanguagewales/census2021

@Skodacool , Why would they do that? Makes no sense.
Wouldn't it be obvious that their Welsh was forced? It's obvious from the toneof voice if someone is talking about you.

Welsh people often pepper their speech with English words out of laziness, and if you heard a conversation, you might hear something like 'Rho'r cheesecake yn y fridge, mae hi'n really yummy' or 'nes di weld y football ar y television? Liverpool vs Arsenal, two-nil' and that might register as English. When the next bit is said it's in purer Welsh, but they won't have switched language.

@Expletive ,The majority of people in Wales as a whole speak English as their first and only language. Can you back that up as a fact?
Plenty of people in Wales speak more than one language.

Even if it does, what does it mean?

I would just assume that they were having a private conversation and wanted to keep it private.

Many Welsh people speak English as their first language

The majority of people in Wales as a whole speak English as their first and only language.

To all those scornfully questioning my childhood experiences; we knew they were speaking English because we heard them as we entered the shop or café. We witnessed them changing to Welsh when they heard us speak. Why do you think it's so baffling that so many people experience this? Surely that's evidence that it does happen.

@MasterBeth , There was no need for that last comment.

Depending on where in Conwy the OP says she lives, she may have grown up in a Welsh-speaking area and been educated in Welsh-medium schools. To go into a shop or cafe in a Welsh-speaking area and speak to the staff in English, seems bizarre.

Plenty of countries have more than one language. France, Netherlands, Belgium and Italy to name only a few.

This is why Welsh speakers here are finding the OP’s position difficult to fathom. It is unusual, almost unheard of, for a Welsh speaker to go into a cafe where Welsh is spoken and not speak Welsh to other Welsh speakers.

It isn’t only Welsh speakers that find her position difficult to fathom. Although I do know Welsh speakers who will respond in Welsh if spoken to in Welsh and will join a Welsh conversation in Welsh, but day-to-day they speak English, even to their own families.

That isn’t in North Wales though.

You might indeed say it in places with two languages. Catalonia, for example. A Catalonian family might be able to speak Spanish, but not be a Spanish-speaking family. Or vice versa.

Many Welsh people speak English as their first language, embrace Welsh-language teaching at school so become bilingual, but aren't entirely Welsh speaking.

Maybe you're not as adept in English as you thought...

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=966889406716055&wtsid=rdr_0ehqVkx1xvbpDa7dj

Being fully bilingual myself, perhaps I find it natural that people, for whom English isn’t their first language, will speak their non-English language instinctively, even in mixed company.

For example, I have a dentist from Eastern Europe who once had an assistant from the same country. They would converse in English to me; but mid treatment, not unusual for them to turn to their first language. I’m guessing it was exchanges such as passing instruments or other such stuff; but it wasn’t something I considered unusual.

I understand that if you speak two languages, that you turn to your first language to others instinctively with those who share your first language. It’s like the de-fault setting. It takes more concentration to speak English to people who share your non-English first language; and quite frankly feels awkward.

I do it myself in mixed groups. Whilst English becomes the shared language; I am likely to exchange greetings /casual remarks in Welsh to other Welsh speakers within the English conversation.

This is why Welsh speakers here are finding the OP’s position difficult to fathom. It is unusual, almost unheard of, for a Welsh speaker to go into a cafe where Welsh is spoken and not speak Welsh to other Welsh speakers. Which is why I understand how my dentist and the dental nurse spoke their first language to each other, but turned to English when I needed to be included. It’s a very natural way for bilingual people to communicate.

@Expletive ,The difference is that unlike any of the other countries you mention, English is the most commonly spoken language in the whole of Wales. By a huge margin.

What we Welsh-speakers, if I may speak for us collectively, resent is the unawareness there is of the fact that many of us live our daily lives not speaking any English other than the odd word.

I think there were a few cases of this happening in the 1970s along with the holiday homes being subject to arson attacks.

It is no longer the 1970s. Though the issues about holiday homes still apply - fortunately arson is no longer the solution.

Edited: though I am not sure those attacks were in North Wales.

The difference is that unlike any of the other countries you mention, English is the most commonly spoken language in the whole of Wales. By a huge margin.

That said, I also doubt the OP’s motive starting this thread and there has been a lot of unnecessary anti-Welsh and anti-English nonsense posted.

That’s some incredible linguistic gymnastics you’re doing there. My assumption is only that the op is completely made up, but replies like this are anything from hilarious to confusing. Only when people talk about the Welsh do they come out with things like this. Never would you say about French/German/Spanish (any other country where English isn’t the first language) ‘they may speak French but that’s doesn’t mean they’re French speaking’ 🤪

She says her entire family speak Welsh, not that her family are entirely Welsh speaking. You are assuming the latter because it better fits your assumptions about her.

But the waitress wasn’t in England, she was in wales, speaking her native language to her native language Welsh friend. And she said ‘they thought the sauces were free’ because op had wrongly assumed they were and then expected the waitress to get them for free for her (in this probably made up story anyway). If OP were to ‘confront’ them in Welsh, the most she’d need to say would be ‘sorry yes I did, I’ll make sure I pay for them’