Caused a scene in a cafe today. Now wondering if we were unreasonable

I don’t know what straw man means.

the waitress in question said that op thought the sauce was free. Which OP had. So she was hardly mean to OP based on OPs nationality. OP has just decided this was the case. I don’t think saying (to a fellow first language Welsh friend) ‘they thought the sauce was free’ is all that mean and xenophobic personally but maybe I’m just less easily offended.

Okay but then don't blame people and call them arrogant when they don't understand

I’m not going to think of a way to inform all English people that I might speak a bit of English into my Welsh when I talk, no. I don’t need to justify how I speak my own language thanks. If people randomly assume I’m talking about them when I’m talking my own language, perhaps they need to address their own insecurities

Straw man, straw man!!!

No - it's not about the language thing. I've never experienced the 'switch to Welsh when an English person appears' situation, but I believe others who say they have. Maybe Welsh-speakers to this, maybe they don't.

That's not the point. What the OP is complaining about is the hostility based on a (in this case, mistaken - but that's beside the point too) assumption about their nationality. It's not OK to be mean to someone because of their nationality alone.

I've not noticed the language issue - but I have noticed the side-eye, the switch from a welcoming smile to a hard expression, the eye-roll, when I've spoken in a cafe of shop. It wouldn't be acceptable if it was done to someone of a different race -it would rightly be called out. It's not OK to treat people badly because of their nationality.

I've never heard anybody from the area say in Anglesey. It was actually one of the first things I noticed because I would have said in rather than on.

You could probably hammer throw a person across the strait but no person from N Wales would dare say ‘in Anglesey’. It’s an island, you go on one not in and everyone in the local area knows this. It’s a very small detail but something that made me go 🤨.

Edit: sorry @Cosyblankets I did mean to quote your post in full but fat fingers obviously!

I'm not from the UK, so don't know the hostilities between different nationalities, but sh*tty people exist everywhere and they are not worth your energy.

I find it really strange that you're born and bred in north Wales and speak the language yet didn't do so in the cafe. North Wales is an area where they're very patriotic about keeping the language.
You don't actually know that the other people didn't pay for their sauces they might have paid and not picked them up.

Did you have the conversation with the manager in Welsh?
I have family (in laws) who live on Anglesey. I've never heard anybody from the area say in Anglesey. It was actually one of the first things I noticed because I would have said in rather than on. But they all say on.
My in laws all speak Welsh and switch to English if I'm around. I'm trying to learn a bit. It's hard but I'm doing a bit.
Something about this post just doesn't ring true

I live in North West Wales , I'm English but I have learned Welsh to a point where I can understand everything but my speech isn't fluent.
Speaking Welsh in Wales is not a form of passive aggression as someone suggested above. It isn't true that people switch to speaking Welsh when you enter a pub or restaurant either, they were speaking Welsh in the first place as it's their first language.
I worked in the NHS in Bangor for a long time. A lot of the day to day conversation was in Welsh but there was constant switching from Welsh to English and people did change to English if they noticed someone was being left out.
It takes a while to be accepted if you move into a Welsh village.
I have found most people to be as friendly as anywhere else but it can't be denied that there is some anti-English sentiment, often linked to history. Some people act as if all English people are aristocratic oppressors.
Incidents like the one OP described do happen. It happened in a bank to a friend of mine who was originally from Penmachno but had lived in Dorset and spoke English like a middle class Southern English person . Basically someone serving her said "Let the old bag wait" or similar in Welsh and was mortified when she asked to speak to a supervisor in Welsh.
It can be like moving to a rather insular village with the additional historical baggage (the English ruling class were very oppressive in the past) and a language barrier.
It's complex though and most people just accept you as you are.
I don't think OP made too much fuss, rudeness isn't acceptable and you can't hold a tourist buying a cup of tea responsible for past oppression of Welsh language and culture.

You really have lost the marble. You are doing exactly what you say the English are doing in saying this whole post is very much a gotcha. Paranoid much?

I have family in North Wales. Our heritage is Welsh and some branches of the family have remained there but some were born in England so some speak Welsh and others English as their first language.

We have had issues like this quite a few times, sadly. Grandad used to take a strange pleasure in playing the Englishman then turning to add a pertinent comment to their conversation in Welsh just as we were leaving. Some faces were a picture!

Speak for yourself!

No problem!

Yes, that's another reason they sold - but the selling up/lack of tourism is problematic for locals too. I believe they're charging tourism tax now also which will surely only exacerbate the situation. My IL's spent a lot of time there and spent a lot of money locally. Obviously a lot of people who were renting out their houses as holiday let's are now leaving possibly taking that tourist pound away. You have to get special planning permission now and jump through hoops to be allowed to rent out property as holiday let's. But not enough people want to live there full time.
Hopefully it will all resolve itself but I don't think the houses that are being sold will be bought by locals as even the ones that were sold very cheaply as affordable housing recently took years to sell. My IL's are very lucky to have got out when they did as properties there are just stagnant right now. It's a shame as we had many happy times there.

If it were just about breaking Covid rules then why did they say “fuck off English” and not “fuck off 2nd home owners”? Surely Welsh 2nd homeowners would also be in the wrong? Why just target the English?

I personally experienced the switching to Welsh myself whilst in a village shop in North Wales 45 years ago.

I have very recently learnt from a thread on MN that Welsh people switch from English to Welsh all the time; it's how they converse. If I hadn't read the thread on MN I would be non the wiser

So we're not bloody arrogant just uninformed

So perhaps think of some way of informing us all

Sorry misread your post. But holiday/second homes in rural/seaside areas are problematic all over the uk. Your parents would have been paying a lot more in council tax too if they hadn’t sold.

No. Reread my post. They were perfectly entitled to go down when they did.

Unfortunately some locals were too thick/in a "pitchfork" mindset to accept this.

The waitress said to her friend that OP thought the sauce was free. Im not sure if I would class that as appalling if I’m honest. Possibly the waitress would have said it in English (if chatting to an English speaking friend) because it’s not really an offensive thing to say. But so happens that this friend of hers and her converse in Welsh.

saying something in Welsh doesn’t automatically
mean it’s rude. Soooo many English people seem to think people are speaking Welsh deliberately to snub them or be rude. Maybe on the odd occasion but it would be very rare- people flatter themselves way too much to think Welsh people are speaking about them every time they speak Welsh 😂

My IL's own a holiday home in North Wales and during covid the locals put up signs on the entrance to the village saying "fuck off English" etc. When my IL's went down to check on their house (when it was allowed) they were told (threatened) to leave and that there'd been loads of trouble/police being called etc. (obviously they are not all like this but the few give the many a bad reputation)

Because they were breaking Covid rules? This was a problem all over the UK, people rushing to their rural bolt holes when they shouldn’t have been going anywhere.

It’s clear from this thread that some English people hate Welsh people and are uncomfortable with hearing them speak a British language that they don’t understand.
This is a really bizarre take on the thread! Read the OP. It's an incident where someone was badly treated because the waitress thought (wrongly) that they were not Welsh. That's appalling, and no-one should be excusing it.

I was responding to the many many posters who have claimed that people in Wales speaking English in shops and pubs switch to Welsh when English people come in.

You couldn't be more wrong - house prices have actually fallen becuase no one is buying. It has nothing at all to do with the Welsh language. Welsh people will continue to speak Welsh and their children learn it in school - what has that got to do with people moving in from other places? If English people move to wales and their dc's go to school there, they will be taught Welsh! No one is denying the importance of carrying on the language.

My IL's own a holiday home in North Wales and during covid the locals put up signs on the entrance to the village saying "fuck off English" etc. When my IL's went down to check on their house (when it was allowed) they were told (threatened) to leave and that there'd been loads of trouble/police being called etc. (obviously they are not all like this but the few give the many a bad reputation)

They've just sold their house there largely due to what they feel is anti-English feeling. Loads of other people they know are getting out due to the section 24 regarding holiday let's. I believe things have gone very quiet and tourism is not doing well, many locals are now trying to get the section 24 revoked as it's negatively affecting them too. If you can only sell your house to people who want to live there full time it obviously drastically lowers its value especially in a seaside town in the middle of nowhere with very little opportunity. Young people don't want to live there - they move out to cities. It's a mess! I think the village my IL's owned a property in will end up even more of a ghost town and with none of the outside money from tourism brought in to prop it up. Just ask some of the people who own businesses there - it's pretty bad.

Yes - very Royston Vesey!

Any xenophobia is an issue. Posters aren’t making it a massive issue, they are simply telling us their experiences of it.

It’s clear from this thread that some English people hate Welsh people and are uncomfortable with hearing them speak a British language that they don’t understand.

This is a really bizarre take on the thread! Read the OP. It's an incident where someone was badly treated because the waitress thought (wrongly) that they were not Welsh. That's appalling, and no-one should be excusing it.

Some people have tried to set up a straw-man argument that it's the use of the Welsh language (long may it live) that tourists/English people are objecting to. i've never heard that - but I have experienced minor versions of what the OP describes.

I had a Welsh headteacher (grew up in Cheshire) who was amazing and from primary school we went to Wales for history, geography, biology, drama - you name it. I loved it, but have been put off in my adult life after some experiences of the type the OP mentions. It's absolutely not in people's imagination! And comments on here sadly seem to confirm strong anti-English feeling. Please don't try and say history is the excuse - no-one on this thread (or living today) has oppressed Welsh people and they shouldn't be targeted because of medieval history.

There are a few. I just don’t think it’s the massive issue that some posters are making out. And many posters do not need any excuse to bash the Welsh.

What a strange mindset some people must have to instantly take a disliking to someone because they are not a local. I just find that so bizarre. I wonder what goes through their head. It is herd mentality? One bad experience?

You don’t own a town/village just because you happened to be born there.