Caused a scene in a cafe today. Now wondering if we were unreasonable

You don’t sound unreasonable. Many years ago something similar happened to my grandparents. English people in Germany. My great grandad was a tailor. My grandad was visiting Germany and trying on a jacket. He asked in English if they had one with more pockets. The shop keeper thinking they didn’t speak German said to his colleague ‘how many pockets does a man need’. Quick as a flash granny said in German ‘my husband will have as many pockets as he likes’. Must be 30+ years later we still laugh about the shock the man must have had.

you don’t sound rude or unreasonable. People shouldn’t presume anything and people working in customer service should be polite in any language.

don’t overthink it.

An excellent example of why people find the English unpleasant.

It’s probably best you don’t. Welsh people often flip flop from English to Welsh naturally and use what’s called Wenglish where English words are interspersed in the Welsh. Second language English speakers (such as many folk on Anglesey) often do not feel comfortable speaking in full English to each other as it doesn’t feel natural. If you’re likely to take offence at that then it’s probably for the best.

I don’t think you were unreasonable, especially as others have had a similar experience. A friend of mine is Welsh, has an obviously Welsh name, speaks English with a Welsh accent and speaks Welsh. He went to somewhere in Wales where he wasn’t known, booked in then heard himself being talked about in Welsh and realised that they thought he was English and was being put to the back of the queue. He didn’t react but just said, when he left “thank you for being so helpful”. In Welsh.

Similar happened to me in Hebrides woman in shop and local customer talking about me buying food I thoroughly enjoyed their discomfort when I spoke Gaelic !

My paternal great grandparents were Italian, shall I visit just to say how pissed off I am they’re all speaking in Italian and they’re making my tiny percent of southern European blood boil 🤣

I agree. Especially when they were speaking English as we walked in then switch to Welsh.

Having spent two months in France this summer, you’re right, they do speak French. And what they also do is make you feel very welcome as they realise tourists spend money.

Not entitlement, just disappointment that the Welsh make it so obvious they don’t want the English.

So I’ll respect the wishes and not visit again.

They may have also paid for theirs but had forgotten to put it on the tray. Imagine hating the English so much you’re basing your entire career on withholding condiments from them. Must be worth minimum wage in how much self satisfaction you get watching them eat a dry chip…

That attitude is fairly common in North Wales. I avoid holidaying in Wales for that reason, despite the fact my maternal great grandparents were Welsh which means I have Welsh heritage.

There isn't just some people like to look for and confirm lazy stereo types and stoke trouble and division.

I am British, with first language English, but I live on Anglesey where OP seems to have got in trouble. It is true, there are many British people here with first language Welsh. When I'm with them they flip back and forth Welsh English all the time. I have worked all over the country, but currently work across the North Wales coast. I can 100% tell you the OP is wrong, and there is no real world difference from Deeside to Holyhead. Some people are British first language English, some British first language Welsh. There are many slight accents which are interesting along the coast, but you cannot generally tell from their accent which is their first language.

Equally there is no hatred of English and/or tourists. There may be a few 'mouthy' idiots with opinions that don't reflect reality and don't stand up to scrutiny. Most thinking people know exactly the benefits tourists of all nationalities bring, to everyone, but equally the compromise than is needed to benefit.

I have used 'British' one purpose in this post because that is what we are, look at your passport if you have any doubt. There is a place for the 'Home Nations' it's during the rugby. We all sit together during the rugby and cheer what ever side we want. As long as the game ends 48:50 in extra time, everyone is happy, and the celebrate great sport together.

I've heard about this reaction in some parts of Wales from friends who go walking and holiday in the area. Not an unusual occurrence by all accounts.

lol how dare first language Welsh speakers speak their own language to each other. I would never think I should go into a shop in eg France and all the French should immediately speak English simply because I have wandered in. Beggars belief the sheer entitlement of so many on this thread

I moved to Wales not long ago and everyone is so lovely. I am not English and always have a positive experince with Welsh speakers.

Why would she cringe though? All she said was that op thought the sauce was free which she had.

We had a similar experience in Anglesey and yes, we were tourists. In our case when customers heard us speaking English they spoke Welsh. A warm welcome in the hillside . . . . not.
we haven’t been back there since.

I would’ve just had a very loud and pointed conversation in Welsh and watch the waitress cringe.

The waitress knew the Welsh speaking couple. OP says it herself. Maybe she gave them the sauce free because she’s mates with them or they come so often to the cafe. Why must it be that she gave them the sauces and not OP because she hates the English?! What a conclusion to leap to. The waitress says in Welsh that the sauces weren’t free, she doesn’t go round bad mouthing the English at any point

Except if you read the op and the follow ups, there’s absolutely no xenophobia shown. Not one shred of evidence that the op was treated poorly because of being presumed to be English. That part is completely of theirs and others narrative. Rereading the op, 90% of the cause of irritation was from miscommunication and the op not bothering to go to the place the sauces were given out - even though the waitress initially said to go to the till, the op still wanted the waitress to sort it out for them. I’m not saying the waitress then moaning about them is right, but this is very obviously a case of both sides being rude.

I had an English friend who owned a shop in Anglesey, she told me that many Welsh visitors used to mess her around and talk about her negatively. She even heard one couple planning to make her fetch things from the top shelf around the shop, she would have to use a ladder. When they asked for an item off of the top shelf, she replied in perfect Welsh, "I'm not playing your game."

In contrast, I lived on the island for four years as a child, I don't recall having problems and my parents never spoke about any trouble.

Agreed. In my home country we have English and Americans and other Europeans who refuse to learn the language and refuse to mix with the locals. They have British Schools/American schools etc etc. They don't integrate in the culture it all and they live in closed off communities. It is very disgusting but thr government don't do anything about it at all.

I met similar behaviour in Wales, sad to say. I'd tried to learn the basics courtesies in Welsh but when I used them, people replied in English. I asked why and was told I didn't speak Welsh well enough to deserve a Welsh answer. I've never returned there. Don't go where you're not welcome.

Reminds me of a story of my mums from years ago. She was English but spent the summer holidays each year on the Llyn peninsula and could speak and understand a lot of Welsh at the time. Her and my dad were recently married and had gone to a marina for drinks and a couple of locals starting calling them in Welsh until my mum turned round and gave them a gobful back, nice as pie after 🤣

Gosh, this thread has escalated. I’m a Welsh Speaker, (username a bit of a giveaway to those who speak Welsh.) I live in Wales in a very Welsh speaking tourist area. My DP’s family are English. My DC’s family life crosses over the English/ Welsh cultures.

So, the gist is..

1. Some English people have encountered rudeness from Welsh people.
2. Some Welsh people have encountered rudeness from English people.
3. Some English people feel that the Welsh are anti-English.
4. Some Welsh people feel that the English are anti-Welsh.
5. Some English people are anti Welsh.
6. Some Welsh people are anti English.
7. Customer service in Wales is a mixture of poor / good. (I guess this is the same in England?)
8. Some English people have been on the receiving end of anti-English sentiments from Welsh people which have hurt their feelings.
9. Some Welsh people have been on the receiving end of anti-Welsh sentiments from English people which have hurt their feelings.

So... our communities are a mixture of different natured people with good and bad qualities, whether we are Welsh or English. Which is the same for every country across the world. This ‘othering’ isn’t helpful and this thread is quite sad to witness.

Heddwch/ Peace

It doesn't matter, whatever word you want or don't want to use to label it, it is irrational and unreasonable discrimination which amounts to the same thing as racism and xenophobia and should equally be called out.

Same as others said. Let her spew her nastiness then hunikate her in Welsh and ask for a refund for thr sauces.
I would still get manager involved and ask for reduction in bill. I would have finished my food and leave a very negative review